Gould 330gr HP Bullet, 45-90 1886, Multi-Purpose Black

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Last Post 16 March 2026

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Aaron posted this 10 January 2026

I finally got around to loading up some 45-90 cartridges for the Winchester 1886 Lever Action Rifle with some Shooters World Multi-Purpose Black propellant. There is not really a whole lot of information out there regarding it so I used the data sheet provided by Shooters World whereby they advise to fill the case to the bottom of the bullet. As you know, the MP Black is a black powder substitute propellant similar to Pyrodex in performance, or so they say.

The available literature regarding it is either 70% positive in nature or 30% negative in that it is highly corrosive, fails to ignite, yada yada yada.

In truth, the propellant ignites wonderfully, leaves very little residue in the barrel after firing and the bore is easily cleaned with water or moose milk. With a 60gr (by weight) charge under the 330gr Gould bullet in Lyman #2 alloy, the recoil was "normal" for the 1886 on steroids. At 62 yards, offhand, with open sights, the bullets were about 3" above center and shot 3" apart. That is certainly fine for a hunting load. I am sure the group would have been better had I benched the rifle, but anyone who shoots an 1886 with a crescent buttplate knows how painful that can be.

The Lyman Gould bullet (457122) performed wonderfully. No leading was present and very little bore residue remained in the barrel. The propellant produced white smoke like using black powder. I used a taper crimp on the cartridges since no real crimp groove exists on the bullet. I also wanted to use all three lube grooves for lubricant. The Paul Matthews Premium+ lubricant worked wonderfully as well.

The Lyman Gould bullet was also shot today with 58gr of IMR-3031 powder. That was a tad stiffer load than the MP Black but again, no leading with this bullet in Lyman #2 allow and Paul Matthews Premium+ bullet lube. Velocity was to be near 2000fps but I did not chronograph them. Felt like 2000 though.

I am very happy with both the Gould bullet for the 45-70 and 45-90 cartridges. Coupled with Shooters World MP Black propellant, it is a very efficient load and cartridge. The MP Black sure is a lot easier to clean up after than real black powder.

Of note is that cases must be cleaned as soon as possible to prevent corrosive action of the residue on the brass. No worries, just drop fired cases into a jar of soapy water and clean them as soon as you can. Easy peasy. Same as using black powder.

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Wilderness posted this 10 January 2026

Aaron - I am envious of your .45-90 (other than the buttplate).

My first experience of the big stuff was a .45-70 RB made on a Spanish action. Mould was #457406HP GC, I think about 470 gns with hollow. Load was 40 gns 4740 (similar to 3031) pre chronograph. Barrel was too heavy and I made the stock with too much drop and not enough pitch. It went to a new owner fairly quickly.

My next experience was when a friend bought a Marlin .45-70. I steered him into your bullet #457122. He'd lucked on to a keg of 4759 so that's what we used. I think velocity was about 1500 fps. We spent a week up in some good pig country, and swapped rifles for a bit - he used my Savage .30-30 and I used the Marlin. What I did notice was that when we cut up pigs looking for damage and bullets, the pigs shot with the .45-70 tended to give a bit of a squirt when a blood vessel was cut, e.g. removing a leg. The ones shot with the .30-30 did not do this. Perhaps velocity equates with a better bleed out.

I had a couple of .577/450s also - an Alexander Henry and a Martini - but never shot anything with them. A friend had an 11 mm Mauser M1871. I found some Dominion ammo for it and he shot one pig only - hit too far back in the ribs and had to be pulled up by the dogs for another shot. But that was a solid bullet.

I could never warm to those nasty curved buttplates. I've made a few stocks over the years and mostly used the Niedner steel plate from Brownells. If I had an oldie with a curved buttplate I think I'd make another stock for field use with a Niedner - or even a rubber pad now that I'm noticing recoil more. Stock dimensions are important too - length, comb, pitch and cast.

You are only as good as your library.

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Aaron posted this 11 January 2026

Aaron - I am envious of your .45-90 (other than the buttplate).

That butplate will bring tears to your eyes if you benchrest the rifle. Shooting offhand with a good stock weld makes it a lot easier where your upper body can move and absorb the recoil gracefully.

My next experience was when a friend bought a Marlin .45-70. I steered him into your bullet #457122. He'd lucked on to a keg of 4759 so that's what we used. I think velocity was about 1500 fps. We spent a week up in some good pig country, and swapped rifles for a bit - he used my Savage .30-30 and I used the Marlin. What I did notice was that when we cut up pigs looking for damage and bullets, the pigs shot with the .45-70 tended to give a bit of a squirt when a blood vessel was cut, e.g. removing a leg. The ones shot with the .30-30 did not do this. Perhaps velocity equates with a better bleed out.

That bullet, in the 45-90, is a SOLID performer and one that Teddy Roosevelt preferred in his 1886 rifle. At about 1600fps pushed with a case full of black powder, it worked when cast of 16:1 or 20:1 alloy. In the Paul Matthews book, Forty Years with the .45-70, he makes mention of the frangibility of the bullet if cast in Lyman #2 alloy and driven to about 2000fps with smokeless powder. He touts it as a serious game killer and producer of a blood trail when good hits are made on deer. In yet another tale, he states how poorly it produced a blood trail in a deer with a high chest shot, destroying the lungs and filling the pleural cavity with blood yet none leaked out. Next year I plan to use that bullet in a 20:1 alloy with the Multi-Purpose Black propellant at around 1600fps. Still have the 30-30 hollow points ready for use. Perhaps next year I may get the chance to try them out as well.

I could never warm to those nasty curved buttplates. I've made a few stocks over the years and mostly used the Niedner steel plate from Brownells. If I had an oldie with a curved buttplate I think I'd make another stock for field use with a Niedner - or even a rubber pad now that I'm noticing recoil more. Stock dimensions are important too - length, comb, pitch and cast.

I love the eye appeal of the crescent buttplate. For me, they really enhance the lines of the Winchester lever action rifles. Shooting them offhand of course, is the only way to survive the recoil with them. I absolutely agree with your qualification of stock dimensions for the shooter. Each point is very important for precision marksmanship with a rifle. Years ago I had a rifle fitted to me by the USMC and she was a dream to shoot on the long distance targets. I tried to explain "cast" as in "cast on or cast off" to folks when I worked in the Gun Library at Cabelas for 6 years. Most folks have no idea how important those fittings can be on a rifle. That was the only rifle I had with custom stock dimensions. Since I can't afford to fly to London for a fitting on a Purdy, I use factory stock dimensions on whatever rifle I shoot. That works pretty good except for tang sights where less drop would be beneficial for a proper stock weld.

Oh well....the stock Miroku 1886 Winchester runs just fine for me now. I have no plans to work the rifle at real far targets. Around here, 100 yards or less are where most shots on game happen. There is the occasional farm field (sweet potatoes) where a deer stand surveys the field of 500 yards, but I don't hunt in them. I hunt the woodlands and 62 yards is a far shot. With the Lyman aperture sight on the rear and a gold dot on the front sight (thank you Miroku), the sight picture works just fine for 60 yards and perhaps 100 yards. Love those aperture sights!

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Lucky1 posted this 11 January 2026

I have to agree that crescent buttplates look great in a traditional sense but do hurt like hell on the bench. As a compromise in the search for accuracy with less big bore pain, the result came in the form fairly long cross sticks. As in, you sit on a 5 gal pail so you are upright and your body can move like you do with offhand but it is much steadier. It is a cheap alternative overall.

Scott Ingle

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Aaron posted this 11 January 2026

That is exactly how I sight the loads in. My 5 gallon bucket with a padded seat and a tripod rest for the barrel. Darn rifle is heavy and that tripod lets that barrel drop right into place. Sweet!

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Lucky1 posted this 11 January 2026

Ohhhh...you have a padded bucket! Just kidding because you are on the right track. My 45-90 Sharps has a shotgun butt and it is still best to avoid the bench with the 520 gr Postells; I have no problem imagining how tough your 86 would be. Good luck and happy hunting!

Scott Ingle

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Aaron posted this 12 January 2026

A padded SWIVEL seat I might add. Top of the line model! Spent the whole deer season on that seat with the tripod at the ready. Swapped off between the 1886 and the M94 in 30-30. Froze to death. Didn’t see one deer this last season. Game cameras ran out of pixels during dark time. Rascals were everywhere between 8:00 pm and 5:00 am, then….poof.

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Premod70 posted this 15 March 2026

That bullet was designed to shoot 20-1 at no more than 1400fps from an article I read years ago. Works well in the Marlins with Ballard rifling if kept at the low speed.

Dale Flinchum

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RicinYakima posted this 16 March 2026

Yep, the "Gould" bullet was a black powder express bullet that gained a lot of popularity in the 1880's in the East. It was never very popular in the West other than the coast range for deer. Reading the old sporting magazines from the 1800's, the Marlin 405 grain RN FP was more popular out West.