Frozen barrels

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Premod70 posted this 4 weeks ago

Here's a question that I feel needs some thought, maybe not but I'll ask just the same. With half of the match classes requiring a production barrel and most production barrels not being stress relieved would it be prudent to have the barrel cyro treated. If you have a barrel so treated please tell us the results of your efforts. As you know most match shooters seem to experience a slight degradation of accuracy in match shooting production barrels and use various cleaning, lubing, alloying, loading techniques only to have the occasional unexplained flier that doesn't seem to be as problematic with the unrestricted class custom stress relieved barrels. Just a thought that I feel may be tried by some but I have never seen any discussion, please reply if you have thought or ignore as one of my improbable tangents.

Forrest Gump is my smarter brother.

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fc60 posted this 4 weeks ago

Greetings,

From the Shilen Website....

https://www.shilen.com/faq.html#question1

Cheers,

Dave

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pat i posted this 4 weeks ago

Had a Shilen barrel froze once and it made no difference at all. I have no idea what it would do to a factory barrel but I wouldn't expect miracles.

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Ed Harris posted this 4 weeks ago

Snake oil. You can do as well putting Preparation H in your bullet lube and adding the mostly empty tube to flux your lead pot to shrink your groups.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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linoww posted this 4 weeks ago

During the cryo craze some guys sent their bullets off to be processed!

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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trapdoor4570 posted this 4 weeks ago

You may want to let the barrel thaw before firing.  Let’s just hope that if there was Polar Bear in front of him it died of laughter

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pat i posted this 4 weeks ago

At least he saved the front sight.

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Wm Cook posted this 4 weeks ago

“Snake oil””…”.

Agreed

I’ve shot literally dozens of cyro treated barrels and the only thing that improved groups was to keep buying barrels until you lucked into one that shot better.

And what was that black powder stuff they talked us into tumbling our bullets in back in the 90’s. It was meant to prevent fouling. After 70+ shots shooting prairie dogs one afternoon it took me hours of scrubbing to get the barrel clean.

Or how about the concentricity gauge.

Only good thing about getting old is that you develop a sense of humor about these “breakthrough” products. Bill.

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Tom Acheson posted this 3 weeks ago

I tried that treatment once and did not see any accuracy improvement, so never did it again. Seems like it’s more of a mental thing than a extensively unbiased tested thing.

At one of our local CBA matches years ago, we had a shooter (shall remain nameless) in the UNR category. During the target change he went into his camper trailer and swapped barrels. He claimed if a barrel didn’t shoot good right from the get-go, it would never shoot good. He did that three times over the weekend long match. Can’t recall how his groups/scores turned out.

I did not look into his camper but he must have had quite a pile of new pre-chambered barrels AND a good tooling set-up to permit him to make quick barrel change outs. He was the only match shooter that I ever saw do this. There might be others but they have to be rare.

Tom

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pat i posted this 3 weeks ago

“ I’ve shot literally dozens of cyro treated barrels and the only thing that improved groups was to keep buying barrels until you lucked into one that shot better. And what was that black powder stuff they talked us into tumbling our bullets in back in the 90’s. It was meant to prevent fouling. Or how about the concentricity gauge.

I went that route too with cast bullets. Cryo, moly, concentricity guage, grooveless bullets and whatever else you can think of. Except for the things that were a complete failure and waste of time and money, which covers most of them, the rest made no difference at all.

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Tom Acheson posted this 3 weeks ago

What really matters is bench technique….many things regarding hoped for accuracy gains are distractions!

Tom

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John Alexander posted this 3 weeks ago

When listing Snake Oil we shouldn't' leave out the goofy fad of measuring the uniformity of thickness of the case wall in the case body. I don't know how many articles I read in Precision Shooting about the necessity or how to do it without ever once seeing a report of a shooting experiment to see if it did any good. (Of course this is standard procedure for precision shooters.) Anybody with the faintest understand of gas pressure, especially turbulent gas pressure, should have known better.

Paul Pollard has the equipment and is the only person I know that ever tried to find out.  His small test indicated that cases with more variation in thickness shot better than the ones with uniform thickness if I remember correctly.  Small sample error probably but not encouraging for the theory.

You guys already know the other snake oil items on my snake oil list so won't bore you.

John

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fc60 posted this 3 weeks ago

Greetings,

The only use for "cryo" for me was to soak heat treated steel in either Alcohol/dry ice or Liquid Nitrogen to gain a few Rockwell points.

The cold temperature does convert more material to Martensite.

Retemper the parts after cryo.

Cheers,


Dave

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Wm Cook posted this 3 weeks ago

How about tuners.

When they came into fashion (late 90’s, early 2000’s?) there was a big kashuffle with the BR shooters as to whether it was legal to jump off your stool to fiddle with the tuner.

For the record they can affect group size but it distracts the shooter from what’s really important. Like bench technique and wind flags. Not to mention all the obvious things like bullet to leade fit, bullet to bore fit.

IMHO cryo barrels, barrel tuners, bullet alignment tools, gauges to tell you how much tension it takes to seat a bullet, etc. are a distraction.

Kind of curious to see if I get pushback on my opinion of tuners. Bill Cook.

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Glenn R. Latham posted this 3 weeks ago

Bill, no pushback here, but the unlimited rimfire BR shooters almost universally swear by them.  Maybe its because you can't tune the ammo...

Glenn

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John Alexander posted this 3 weeks ago

Bryan Litz ran extensive tests on tuners, carefully following the manufacturer's instruction and found that it was impossible to find the magical best setting for the same reason that "ladder" approaches for finding best wt. of powder charge don't work, as commonly done.  The single groups that are recommended to be shot at each setting (or weight) aren't reliable because the number of groups, and shots in the groups, aren't nearly enough to access precision at that setting. And it is too in time, ammo, and barrel life, to shoot enough at the number of reasonable settings that should be examined. Same reason the Tony Boyer's "tuning" and adjusting during a match methods can't work -- the sample is too small to tell the truth.

Both are similar to a political pollster trying to predict the outcome of an election by asking ten people who they will vote for.  Why most of us can understand the principle as applied to pubic polling and yet still expect a single three, five, or ten shot group to tell us the truth is a mystery.  

The only way single  three, five, or ten shots can give good information is IF the groups sizes between settings (powder charges) are HUGE, and they are not. In a complete wipe out election polling ten people might  also might also be enough.

John

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linoww posted this 3 weeks ago

" as applied to pubic polling"

Not sure that was a mis-spell or intentional.It sure does represent political views!

 

 

As for your statement above, that's how I felt for a long time.I'm gonna save your comments.Because you explained it much better than I could have.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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John Alexander posted this 3 weeks ago

" as applied to pubic polling"

"Not sure that was a mis-spell or intentional.It sure does represent political views!"

=========== George,

Wouldn't be a surprise if mis-spelled, but I have no idea why "public polling" represent a political view. I certainly didn't intend for it to imply any such thing.

I need help.  How does it represent a political view?  What political view does it represent? Thanks.

John

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linoww posted this 3 weeks ago

you wrote "pubic" not "public" 

I was trying to make a funny.i thought " pubic polling" was a survey question to assess your gender when.you join the Democratic party

 

 

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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OU812 posted this 3 weeks ago

I understood Cryo treatment stress relieves barrel and prevents shifting groups as barrel heats up. Not all barrels require stress relieving, because groups do not shift (too much).

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John Alexander posted this 3 weeks ago

George, Sorry to be so numb. 

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