Would anyone know where I could find a drawing of the C.E. Harris / Walt Melander (NEI) 311-155-GC bullet that was in the 7.62x39 article in the 177 issue of Handloader (October 1995). My intentions are to have it replicated as a single cavity mold to be hand loaded for accuracy in a Ruger bolt gun. Thanks, Bill Cook.
A “Measured Response” is as effective as tongue lashing a stuck door.
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I no longer have the original drawing, since it was created in an early version of AutoCAD which was on a old 286 computer which went away long ago. When Lee produced the mold they modified my design to suit their manufacturing process and to make a pointier bullets which more closely resembled ball ammo because they thought that "looked better" for marketing to the mall ninjas and Walter Mitty types.
The Heavy Metal aka Molon Labe version [no longer in business] is closest to my original design, is very well proven accuracy-wise from the 7.62x39 through full-charge loads over 2400 fps which cycle the Garand. This is the actual mold I use and would be my choice for a boltgun to be chambered in the SAAMI or CIP dimensions.
A full-diameter nose north of the crimp groove and tapered nose, well supported and a close fit in the origin of rifling are the key design points.
The Accurate and NOE versions are also good and have my "blessing". Accurate's boring process requires the larger meplat, but I feel that is better for a hunting bullet which feeds well in most rifles
The NOE version has a smaller meplat for better feeding in the SKS and SK rifles, and Swede also produces the mold in various diameters as needed to fit the foreign milsurps which run large.
This photo shows bullet fit of the original NEI in the SAAMI .30-'06 chamber:
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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Ed, thank you very much. I've been looking at the drawings and I'm still crunching numbers. I know nothing about bullet design but I know about gas checks, olgive's and lands. I've been living +/- of that for decades.
I wanted to see if the gas check would be below the neck with a direct copy of the Molot Labe mold with my bolt gun. It looks like base to oglve on the Lee is coming out at .595 and the Molon Labe looks to be .608. The Lee has the gas check at the base of the neck but not below. So .013 deeper may be ok?
another question; would anyone know who can make a round nose mold?
Obviously this is the first attempt at buying a mold that's not off the shelf. Bill.
A “Measured Response” is as effective as tongue lashing a stuck door.
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A true round nose mold would require making a cherry, which is an expensive undertaking for a one-off. Also, my feeling is that a cherry-cut mold is inferior to modern CNC jig bored products. As long as only the heel radius of the GC is below the neck I don't see a problem. In a boltgun I would be inclined to seat the bullet out to achieve firm contact with the rifling and the normal SAAMI or CIP print should allow seating the bullet out a bit with the crimp groove fully exposed.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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Thanks again Ed. I'll work with Tom at Accurate and get things going. I'll let you know how the Lee and the Molon Labe / Heavy Metal compares. I believe they are out about 10 weeks or so. Bill.
A “Measured Response” is as effective as tongue lashing a stuck door.
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i recently bought that mould on e-bay to go along with my NEI number 72. for some reason no one knew what the #52 was and i got it cheap. so far i have not found a 30 caliber that the Harris bullet wont shoot in. somewhere i have a list of his old mould numbers.
joe
if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand
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The NEI No.72 if memory seven was a double crimp groove design nominally 172-174 grains for the MN 30-'96, seat to rear crimp groove for SAAMI chamber or pre-1940 '03 Springfield and to rear crimp groove for Remington 03A3 and Garand.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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Hate auto correct and unable to edit on phone front crimp groove for SAAMI '06 and pre-1940 '03 Springfield.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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The NEI No.72 if memory seven was a double crimp groove design nominally 172-174 grains for the MN 30-'96, seat to rear crimp groove for SAAMI chamber or pre-1940 '03 Springfield and to rear crimp groove for Remington 03A3 and Garand.
Ed, the NEI catalog I have (from Walt's days) shows the #72 as the .311-155-GC, for the 7.62x39; your design, I assume. Regarding the #52... I tried to order one from Walt after I saw an NEI ad, maybe in the FOULING SHOT, where someone had placed number one in a match using the #52. Walt told me the #52 cherry had been damaged. I don't if he ever made another cherry and I didn't pursue the matter.
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I have the Lee 312-160TL and with 45:45:10 is is always the most accurate in my M1903a3 when the GC is put on in a 0.312 die at least at 100 yards. When I shoot at 200, I usually go jacketed and an M1 Garand. Someday when I grow up, I may give it a whirl.
Dave
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I'm drawing a comparison of the original Harris/NEI design NEI 311 155 GC 52A to similar cast with NOE, Accurate Mold, Heavy Metal and Lee.
I reached out to Joe for some measurements for OAL, olgive to base an OAL on the NEI mold he bought on e bay, Not sure if he's following this thread yet. but if anyone else would happen to have the NEI 311 155 GC 52A I would appreciate some measurements from their mold. In Walt's catalog it looks like there is a small metplat and not a complete round nose. In Ed's picture it sure looks like its a round nose. Maybe there was more than one design? Thus the moniker "52A". Ed would know about that. I seriously doubt that there are two designes but you never can tell. I have the Lee and it does have a very small .0625 metplat.
One more quick question. Accurate Mold is a great group but as Ed said the smallest metplat they can provide is .187. Is that the smallest metplat that can be cut?
Here's what I have so far:
And this is the information I am looking for from the NEI
I'm doing this because I am curious. And I would be probably be better off just letting it pass. But the base design looks ideal for a number of diameters (.310, .312, .314) and multiple weights (155, 165, 185 (two lube groove) 200 (two lube groove). I would appreciate some comments on that last one. The last Autocad I worked with was 25 years ago and nothing is on my computer to draw it up properly. Thanks, Bill.
A “Measured Response” is as effective as tongue lashing a stuck door.
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There's apparently some discrepancy in catalog #s vs. actual moulds that I wasn't aware of. I just looked at the box my mould came in. It has the number 52A on it, not #72 as in the catalog. Walt cast bullets with moulds before shipping. In this case, he used Lyman #2 alloy. As cast diameter is listed as .3115" (cold mould), weight 157 grains. This design could best be referred to as a semipoint. There is no definite point, it's slightly rounded, but it's certainly not even close to resembling a flat nose.
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ok i just cast a few bullets with my NEI 52A and got 2 of the measurements you asked for didnt see the third one till i turned on the computer... the meplat is very small i got .088 the length is .939 out of the alloy i was using the weight averaged 161.5 gr. and the diameter of the bullet is .3125.
I can say for a fact that this Harris bullet shoots in every 30 caliber rifle i have tried it in. it shoots great in my argentine mauser at 100 yards didnt hold up at 200. actually it is big enough for the russian rifles both sks and the 91 series. In standard .308 rifles it is short enough to engrave the rifling without being pushed below the neck. i just lube it by running it through a .314 sizer and loading it. i will go ahead and mail you some samples of both the 52A and the 72
if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand
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Looking here:
http://www.castpics.net/dpl/index.php/the-library/moulds/31-current-mold-catalogs/98-nei-molds
There is none of that weight @ .312. 52 is a .308 bullet.
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I have Walt's NEI 311-154 GC. Without digging it out and comparing its profile to the #72 or 311-155 I can't be sure, but I bought a 4 cavity specifically for SKS and AKM. I always thought it shot well, although I did NOT do any John A. type testing.
Since I have at least one of NEI catalogs (unfolds like an old style hiway map) I'll take a look at that design. Might take a while, it's still tacked to the loading room wall at my old house.
Now that I have a 7.62x39 in a bolt gun maybe I should do some testing. when I find time to get around to it .............. Still practicing law almost full time, just slowing down.
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wimilkman
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Tom Acheson
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pat i.
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Aaron
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BRatigan
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MarkinEllensburg
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Ed Harris
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mashburn
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porthos
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joeb33050
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