Beginner 50cal Modern In-Line Bullet Casting

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  • Last Post 24 September 2018
MaverickNH posted this 16 September 2018

I’ve been casting 38sp, 357, 9mm for Pistol but now have a new T/C Bone Collector 50cal and I’d like to try casting for the rifle. I’ll be loading for Der in Southern NH. So far I’ve taken the EZ route with T/C 250gn Superglide sabots and Triple7 pellets but expect to graduate to 50cal lead and loose powder next season. I’ve also shot some 50cal  320gn Maxi Ball lubed lead bullets which load pretty easy, making me wonder if they are tapered soft lead or just too small for my barrel by a few thousandths. 

I’ll appreciate advice and have a smattering of questions too, based on my pistol experience.

1. Where can I get 50cal slugs to size my barrel?

2. Are there sizing dies for 50cal bullets?

3. I see mention of Walters Wads over BP but they list 0.512 - is that for 50cal?

4. I use Hi-Tek Supercoat on my pistol bullets - useful for ML bullets?

5. What’s a good mold to start with?

6. What lead alloy to use?

Thanks for the help!

 

 

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pat i. posted this 16 September 2018

 

 

 

 

I use this 45 caliber Accurate mold with Harvester sabots and Blackhorn powder with wheel weights sized .451 in my TC Omega. Shoots good and the .300 meplat should kill with authority. I don't hunt but wouldn't feel undergunned if I did. There's a heavier bullet with the same design too.

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delmarskid posted this 16 September 2018

I cast for my NEF Huntsman 50. I use the Lee 440g semi-wascutter made for the 500 S&W. They drop at about .501" with my black powder bullet alloy. If your TC has a removable breech plug you could probably bash a 50 lead round ball to fore-shorten it to make a sizing slug. I have had good enough results with this bullet over a Walters .60" card and the powders of my choice.

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onondaga posted this 16 September 2018

You asked,

3. I see mention of Walters Wads over BP but they list 0.512 - is that for 50cal?

The Walters wads are stiff/coarse veggie fiber and intentionally oversize at .512" for 50 cal ML. After charging then start the wads with a ball starter. Put a dab of BoreButter over the wads then start your bullet. The coarse  wad scrubs the bore on the way down and provides some fire protection to the bullet base. This has a very positive effect on accuracy.  For 50 cal ML, I load the Lee REAL 250 for Deer and the 320 for Bear with 75 gr Alliant Black MZ and two .060/512 Walters veggie wads.

The REALs are also oversize at .514" and size to your barrel as you load them. Cast them in PURE lead only as any harder alloy is horribly hard to load.

The REALs are easy to cast and work well in all my 50 Cal rifles grouping 1" @ 50 yards in either 1 : 32 or 1:60 twist barrels for me. The REALs are sensitive to charge and definitely have a power range and begin to lose accuracy quickly when out of range, at 75 gr they group 1" and at 90 gr they group 3" for me. Remember that 75 gr with either of these bullets shoots more powerfully than a 50-70 original military load .

Don't be fooled to learn by trial and error, Alliant BMZ is the cleanest ML propellant of all and has the lowest ES of velocity of all ML propellants while being an equal power propellant to genuine 2FBP by volume.

Gary

 

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MaverickNH posted this 18 September 2018

I sent off for a Lee REAL 250gn mold and handles - relatively inexpensive - and some Walters Wads to try. I’ll have to scout around for Black MZ as it seems less common in the shops. I’ll try pure lead in a Lee Pro 4 20lb furnace.

Any advice on lube for the grooves?

I see one vendor offering Hi-TEK Supercoat ML bullets http://www.cheycastbullets.com/HT-50-Cal_c_85.html

BRET 

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GP Idaho posted this 18 September 2018

MaverickNH  I'm a big fan of coated bullets and it won't hurt to use them in your MZ but you still need to lube them in this instance.  If not lubed you will get extreme powder fouling.  For BP the lube is a lot more about softening the fouling than it is about preventing leading. Gp

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onondaga posted this 18 September 2018

Bret,

The REALs don't need any special lube. I always use just a dab of BoreButter over the started wads before I start the bullet and this coats the bore all the way down. I have also used LLA tumble lube and 45:45:10 tumble lube on the REALs . The added lube offers no advantage over a dab of BoreButter over the wads. The BoreButter is so quick and works so well, that is all I use.

Locally BMZ is cheaper than any genuine BP or any BP substitute and sells fast, keep shopping, it is wonderful to shoot with.

The best tip I can give you for accuracy with the REALs is consistent seating pressure. Whenever I shoot them at the range, I use a bathroom analog scale under the Butt and seat the REALs with 80 pounds pressure . This has built a consistent seating pressure habit in the field for me when I don't use the scale but muscle memory from practice gets the 80 pounds very well. Alliant recommends firm bullet seating over BMZ and the 80 pounds does it well for great ignition and consistent accuracy.

Gary

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onondaga posted this 18 September 2018

Bret,

Let me pile on a little more too. When I first tried BMZ, I found nothing in the instructions regarding lube so I contacted Alliant and I told them I was using BoreButter under REALs on a veggie wad. Their answer was that no lube is recommended at all but if the lube I was using was not compatible it would show up as fouling.  I said, I get no lube fouling with 50 shots in a row at the range. Alliant said, then your lube is fine, keep shooting. The only fouling BMZ makes is a fine dust that is a dry lubricant that helps loading and it does NOT attract moisture from the air like BP and other substitutes do. BMZ is the cleanest BP substitute of all, bar none and that is verified by every user.

Gary

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onondaga posted this 18 September 2018

Bret,

The biggest and completely wrong criticism of BMZ is that it is the same as Pioneer Powder. Pioneer was a bad failure because it had very poor particle size control and measurement by volume was inaccurate while everybody that did not close the container tight got hard clumps. Alliant chemistry Is very similar to Pioneer and under the same US Patent, but the particulate size of BMZ is very well controlled at 2F and the new additive that darkens the color of BMZ is a good anti clump chemical. Problems SOLVED by Alliant!

Gary

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Danny posted this 18 September 2018

Hi Gary. I was intrigued with what you were saying about BMZ so after looking at it on Alliant's website I had a few questions. The site claims it is virtually corrosion free. And since I prefer real BP (I use GOEX) and know it has some real low SD and ES numbers, at or near single digits I wanted to see what they said so I called them.

After answering my questions as best he could,he had no idea about any tests done on SD and ES, he told me flat out, don't bother trying it. They made one batch and sales were dismal so they are dropping from the line. He said one customer has bought the remaining stocks and when its gone its gone.

 

Its a shame too, because every substitute I've tried in my guns has been disappointing to me.

Danny

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onondaga posted this 18 September 2018

You cant make BMZ soak up water Danny, it repels it. I have tested ES and it runs low single digit for me in .50 ML and never went over 7 for me while it was usually 0-5. The stuff is not going to disappear, it is too good. Ignore the rumors.

Gary

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Danny posted this 18 September 2018

Gary, the info came from Alliant tech support via a phone call, not an internet rumor. Call em up.

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Larry Gibson posted this 18 September 2018

MaverickNH

I've a 50 cal TC Black Mountain Magnum which is a "traditional" ML made for saboted bullets and up to 150 gr (3 pellets) of pelleted BP substitute powder. It had a 1/28" twist.  Right after I got it to use Oregon banned saboted bullets, required a lead ball or bullet (not more than 2 caliber lengths) and granular powder (Real BP or substitute).  I then tried various different kinds of bullets and didn't find one that really utilized the rifles potential until I tried the Maxi-Ball.  I cast mine using an original TC mould but ones cast from a Lyman mould do just as well. 

After a bit of testing I settled on Triple 7 FFg.  It proved to be an excellent powder and clean up is super easy with just water..  I use speed loaders when hunting so with one down the pipe and the 5 speed loaders that is sufficient. 

1. Where can I get 50cal slugs to size my barrel?

I never bothered slugging the barrel on min.  The Maxi-Balls "as cast" of 16-1 alloy (needed to hold up to the magnum level velocity) fit perfectly and load easily.  The bottom bands are a tight slip fit and I use a short starter to start/engrave the top band.  The rod then easily seated the bullets on the powder charge.

2. Are there sizing dies for 50cal bullets?

I think Lyman makes H7I dies but I've not needed them.

3. I see mention of Walters Wads over BP but they list 0.512 - is that for 50cal?

I cut my own "wad" using some store bought (fabric store) felt (about 1/16" thick) and soak them in my own lube.  The wad cutter can be made or bought.

4. I use Hi-Tek Supercoat on my pistol bullets - useful for ML bullets?

I use a BP lube made of 5 parts beeswax to 4 parts olive oil. It's what I make for my BP cartridge bullets.  I hand lube them lubing only the bottom lube groove.

5. What’s a good mold to start with?

As mentioned I use an original TC Mould but have found Maxi-Balls from a Lyman mould do just as well. 

6. What lead alloy to use?

I originally used pure lead but quickly found it is too soft for magnum loads.  I was using 16-1 for use in my TD 45-70 bullets which is the alloy Springfield Armory settled on after extensive testing backing in the 1880s. It was holding up quite well to velocities of 1500 - 1600+ fps in the 45-70 so I tried it....instant success.   

I worked up to 90 gr (V) using the FFg Triple 7 and got excellent accuracy with a velocity of 1550 fps.  Using FFFg at the same 90 gr (V) also gives excellent performance at 1575 fps. The 16-1 alloy also expands extremely well in game. Below is a 100 yard target shot with 6 shots fired as fast as I could load and shoot from a bench.  The first shot loaded down a clean barrel then the other 5 loaded and shot with out an cleaning or wiping of the bore.  The 6th shot loaded as easily as the 1st. 

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

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MaverickNH posted this 22 September 2018

I ended up ordering 5x1lb Alliant Black MZ online for $69.95 delivered - if it gets here soon enough I’ll work up my best grain load with 250gr REAL bullets and hunt with it this season. If not then there’s always next season.

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admiral posted this 23 September 2018

Never been a fan of REAL's. I don't like their lack of bearing surface.

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onondaga posted this 23 September 2018

Admiral, you said,

Never been a fan of REAL's. I don't like their lack of bearing surface.

 

Not liking them is not relevant to their effectiveness. With a low charge they will hiss boom with blow by because of the low bearing area. so what? With the charge too high they shoot all over the place, so what? shoot them in their power range and they are superb. I shoot both the 250 and 320 REAL both with the same charge 75 gr BMZ from 4 different rifles and they group 1" @ 50 yards while hitting harder than a 45-70 lever rifle.

I shoot them with two .060 veggie wads under them to protect their bases and that also lowers group size for the REALs because the stiff coarse veggie wads scour the bore on the way down and maintain bore condition very consistently.

They are actually ugly in my opinion too, but they shoot well. I don't like their stumpy pointed noses, but they shoot well. I wish they were flat nosed, so what, they shoot well.

Those bearing bands in tapering sizes from .500 to .514" you don't like are what make this bullet easily loadable and they are burnished to barrel size on loading for an individual rifle fit that is so important to accuracy. Undersized bullets have to bump up and the time/distance doing that is the time the bullet is unstable. This gives the REALs more accuracy potential than bullets that have to bump up or sabotted bullets that are inherently less stable than bore bearing bullets.

I don't think you have given them a fair chance with your criticism of their appearance. You may have also loaded them out of their power range and they stink when you do that too. Try 75 grains BMZ or 2FBP or another substitute equal to 75 gr 2FBP and cast them in PURE lead. Use the wads too and the BoreButter. You will probably stay with them when you do, because they shoot well when you do it right.

Of my 4 rifles 1 is 1 in 32, one is 1:48 and 2 are 1:60 twist. each one prefers either the 250 or 320gr  relative to twist, but they all shoot well at 75 gr BMZ/wads/BoreButter and the less accurate bullet weight for each rifle only groups slightly bigger. I suggest you try both the 250 and the 320 no matter what your twist is. The molds are cheap and your rifle will like one of them a lot.

Gary

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admiral posted this 24 September 2018

onondaga,

 I know how they are designed and how they are supposed to work. I still don't like them as i have found much better performance in a wide range of rifles with a straight sided bullet sized at or .001" over bore diameter. They have too many limitations and a very narrow range where they can work.

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