A Silk Purse from a Sow’s Ear

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  • Last Post 13 July 2024
Wilderness posted this 12 July 2024

I have posted previously about sizing #U321297HP .32 Special bullets from .322” down to .312” for .30-30. Groups each side of 2” at 100 meters at upwards of 2200 fps tell me that I’m on a winner. That HP bullet was a good killer on hogs in .32 Special and remains so in .30-30.

The next application of this super sizing came when I needed a 165 gn non GC bullet for .30-30 Rifle LAS. I have an old WRACo .32-40 mould that would be considered in pretty good condition if the corners on the bevel base had not been damaged. Using it in .32-40 I have had some reasonable results when I have cleaned up the bullets with knife and file.

 

To improve on this, a friend made a punch to match the angle of the bevel base. This need only be a cone, since the rest of the base gets sorted out in subsequent sizing operations. The punch was made to go where the top punch normally goes in the Lube Sizer.

 

The bullet is placed nose first in the .323” sizing die, with the substitute top punch ready to push down on the bevel bullet base. With the stop under the sizing die screwed right off, the bullet is pushed all the way into the die. The stop is then screwed back up to contact, plus just enough further to remove the feathers and corners from the bullet when everything is squeezed to a dead stop.

 

Bullets are then sized and lubed normally in the Lube Sizer with .323” die.

Bullets are turned into .30-30s by passing them sequentially through the .314” and .311” Lee dies. The sizing and the heavy push flattens the bases nicely, and reduces the bevel to about half what it was previously.

 

Groups at 50 meters with subsonic loads are of the order of 1” to 2”, which is adequate for the purpose. Most recent load for this is 5.3 gns Red Dot.

Edit:

This morning I took the 336A to the range to check silhouette zero with the new Red Dot load (new price too - $180/lb). It was a shocking morning with a mongrel wind, blowing the shots off to the side as you can see, but the purpose was to establish elevation, so I continued. First group (top) started on a clean cold bore, and that shot is one of the two on the right. Lube is BAC. The second (middle) group was after moving the sight down 3 minutes, but at 75 metres - oops, wrong range. The third (lower) group was with the same sight setting but at 100 m as originally intended.

The white aiming mark is 4" diameter. Aim dissected the mark at mid height with wide flat top post in 17A sight.

Average group size, allowing for meters not yards, was 3.2 minutes, so my claim of 1" to 2" at 50 meters is still OK.

End Edit.

Groups with #311041 sans gas check, with same soft alloy and same velocity, have been over 2” at 50 meters.  The advantages of the resized .32-40s may be the longer bearing surface, which puts them on to the rifling while still within COL max, and the .312” diameter (#311041 is .310). I prefer my .30-30 bullets to be big enough to fill the neck with minimal clearance. The throat of a .30-30 is just an abrupt collision with the rifling off the end of the chamber, so neck guidance and rifling engagement as loaded are perhaps more important than they might be for say a .308”.  This is in a Marlin 336A Rippletop with 2.150” chamber.

It is a surprise to some that 165 gns at 1050 fps mv is entirely adequate for knocking down LAS Rifle turkeys, pigs and chickens. Indeed for chickens I have more frequently used #311008 (115 gns) subsonic. LAS rams are an entirely different proposition and require a 170 gn plus bullet at high teens muzzle velocity.

This post is a plug for cleaning up scrappy bevel bases in the Lube Sizer, using an upside down approach, for doing some serious sizing to get the bullet you want, and for using a fatter cast bullet in .30-30.

You are only as good as your library.

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delmarskid posted this 12 July 2024

I assume the bullets are lubed before the down sizing to preserve lube grooves. Neat idea. I may try it with some 8mm.

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Aaron posted this 12 July 2024

Man I wish I took shop class in High School instead of Calculus. What a dope. No friends with a lathe either. I do have a Dremel tool and when grinding away with that beast, I imagine me in a machine shop. cool

Nice write-up Bill. Thanks!

 

With rifle in hand, I confidently go forth into the darkness.

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Wilderness posted this 12 July 2024

Yes DK, lubed before serious sizing - ensures lube grooves maintain their dimensions.

Successful sizing of gas checked bullets might depend on some spare length on the shanks to allow for lengthening of that part of the gas check as diameter is reduced. My #U321297HP bullets are fine, but some Lee 8 mm GC bullets made a mess of the gas checks.

For a plain based bullet, a square base may leave you with the base indented by the base plug of the Lee die. The base of the bevelled bullets is smaller than the plug, hence no indentation.

You are only as good as your library.

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pat i posted this 12 July 2024

Great post and work around Bill. I think you should write an article including your hunting results with pictures for the FS since you have a good hand for writing. I'd imagine a lot of people would really enjoy it. In fact you could probably get two articles out of it. One about pig slaying and the other about successfully sizing down .323 bullets to .30 caliber.

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delmarskid posted this 12 July 2024

Good point about the gas checks. I have a Contender in 327 federal with a 10” twist. My eight mold is a loverin type. I think it’s going to carry enough lube for black powder loads. No reason for doing this is sometimes the best reason.

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Larry Gibson posted this 12 July 2024

Well done!

I have similarly sized down Lyman 323470 and 323471HP to .314, to .316 and to .318 for use in oversized .31 cal rifles.  That looks like a fine bullet for your 30-30, 32 SPL and 32-40 rifles.

LMG

 

Concealment is not cover.........

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Eutectic posted this 12 July 2024

Very nice work! I use the LEE sizing dies a lot. The entrance is sometimes crude, but the soft steel is easily polished. It is easy to adjust them to a larger size.

I used to have access to a machine shop where I worked.
Then there was a local machine shop specializing in small projects.
They folded years ago.

Fred Cornell did excellent work for me.
As long as it is related to their products, RCBS will do very good custom work, however they are slow.

Some of us do not have a machine shop and maybe have no room for one.

What are some current custom machinists you all are using? 

Steve

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Wilderness posted this 13 July 2024

This morning I took some ammo loaded with these bullets to the range. I have added an edit to the original post with target.

You are only as good as your library.

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