Glocks

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PETE posted this 23 June 2013

Been thinking about buying a Glock but all I hear is that they shoot jacketed bullets OK but not cast. About the only reason I've heard is it has to do with the type of rifling they use. Seems rather strange to me since a lot of the old SS rifles had similar rifling. Anybody care to be a little more specific as to the why?

Pete

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Duane Trusty posted this 23 June 2013

Pete

Like all other, Glock, they don't want you to shoot reloads, it's their liability issue period.

That being said.I changed out my barrel to Wolf Distributing Co and you can shoot anything, lead, Etc. Also the Chamber is better supported then in the Glock barrel. It's a 40 and I install the factory barrel and load with factory ammo when I carry.

Even with factory barrels I can not tell any difference between the accuracy of any of my my Glocks when using cast lead made up of hard heat treated wheel weighs and jacketed bullets.

Maybe the good Italian Doctor would care to comment as I believe he has a lot of hands on shooting lead in Glock's.

As to buying a Glock all I can say can be summed up as Reliable. I would rather have a 4 inch at 25 yards gun that always goes bang for carry then a 2 inch at 50 yard gun that is not 100% reliable.

Duane

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PETE posted this 23 June 2013

Duane,

Thanks. I like your explanation! Seems more reasonable.

Will look into the Wolfe barrel option in necessary.

I was thinking maybe shooters were trying push lead bullets up to jacketed velocities and due to the rifling shape in Glocks were stripping and possibly leading the barrel. Then of course we have the “competition” model Glocks and I couldn't see people using them wanting to practice using nothing but jacketed. Get a guy broke in no time. :)

So what model do you use? Haven't made up my mind yet but leaning to the full size G17 due mostly to having large hands, altho concealed carry might be in the near future..

Pete

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delmarskid1 posted this 23 June 2013

I shot nothing but cast in my Glock 21 .45. It did lead but I stayed on top of it so the barrel didn't split and wreck my gun or my hand. I shot 200g semi's over 4g of AA2. The lube was home made of God knows what and the alloy was two parts wheel weights with one part lino-type. The accuracy was more than acceptable. For myself I'd have another .45 Glock but the higher pressure rounds would make me nervous. They built a bunch in 10mm so who knows?

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Michael K posted this 23 June 2013

Hi Pete, I have gone the Lone Wolf route myself with my 27 for using cast after spending heeps of time searching the answer I wanted on the topic of cast in a Glocks. To make long story short, IMHO the hundred bucks spent on a LW barrel is cheep compared to any potential damage, repairs or having to keep on top of any leading issues. Drop the LW in and fire away without any additional hassle or worry.
Michael

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PETE posted this 24 June 2013

Delmar & Michael,

You guys are going to have to enlighten me since I've never heard of any pistol having a barrel ruined because it Leaded up. Of course you have to keep on top of any Leading because accuracy goes to pot if you don't, but I never heard of a barrel splitting because it might have to much Lead in it. Also nothing says an after market barrel won't Lead up too.

Pete

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Michael K posted this 24 June 2013

Hi Pete,

Excellent point. I have not done any comprehensive testing to determine the extent and rate of leading in my factory Glock or other OEM barrel using a similar rifling type. My range and casting time is limited and I would rather spend it on something a much more fun to shoot and capable of a higher level of accuracy than a carry gun with a barrel not much longer than my middle finger. My LW barrel is used for cast/lead and the OEM barrel I fed only factory ammo when carrying. My input is based the scores of other posts both here on at CBA, Cast Boolits and other sites that I read over, drawing on the experience (or lack there of) and range time of others.

In summarizing what I came up with regarding the different opinions on the subject, 3 main things seemed to stand out over the coarse of the research.
1. No unusual problems were reported with after market barrels with conventional rifling when shooting cast and leading did sometimes occur.
2. The rifling type used in Glock and similar OEM barrels had a general tendency to lead up with use to varying degrees in regard to caliber, shots fired, alloy type/bullet hardness, etc., due to the rounded shape and configuration of the rifling. Leading cropped up sometimes with less than a box, other times well into the hundreds.
3. There was not any hard fast advise or recommendations that no problems would arise by using cast in a factory Glock or similar OEM barrel. Those shooters who chose to do so accepted the extra vigilance in keeping on top of any leading and/or accepted any potential ill side effects of doing so. To be honest, several hundred rounds of cast were put through mine without a hitch. However I eventually decided my piece of mind was worth more and opted for the LW barrel.

In regards to the old SS rifles, their mainstay was a steady diet of paper patch bullets which do have a more abrasive action than lead alone. Coupled with burning BP and likely less than optimal barrel care over time the lands and grooves made the transition into dips and rises. I once had an 43 Egyptian rolling block with “Glock” rifling.

In the end each of us makes the choice for what we feel the most comfortable with based upon our own individual research. I doubt anyone here expects another to take their advice at face value, especially mine. More than likely you have begun to read through other posts here on the subject, along with other sites that you trust. Have fun sifting the fly turds from the pepper.

All the best. Michael.

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specops posted this 24 June 2013

Large caliber Glocks seem to be less of a problem with cast boolits than the smaller sizes. Having said that it seems to be a matter of bearing area and size (nothing really new). I've had good luck with Lee 230gr. TL SWCS . Cast from straight WWs and dropped into water, lubed with generic white lube and loaded over 6.5 hrs. of Unique. Can't tell much difference between these and the Federal 230 gr Hydroshocks I carry in my Model 36 and it's my standard load for the Model 21. I have an old 358477 that casts 150 gr slugs (compared to the current 158gr ones). Those work better in my Model 19 that normal 9mm sizes (longer bearing surface). You will have to experiment with diameters to find which one's will chamber best. Mine likes .359s. I use load data for 147 gr. loads up to +P so far without problems though most times I use subsonic. I have a Lone Wolf threaded barrel as well and while it is marginally more accurate I have always questioned if it was worth the expense based solely on accuracy. Lube build-up in the chamber isn't any worse than my 1911s, just need to keep them clean.

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James S posted this 24 June 2013

Pete, I replaced a barrel in a Glock 20,10mm. The OEM barrel was causing bulged cases with factory FMJ rounds. I also wanted to shoot reloads in the gun too. I used the Wolf replacement barrel for my Glock 20 and found that it would not feed reliably. After fitting the barrel to the ramp and chamfering the edge of the chamber, as you would a GI 1911, it took with no problems anything I fed it. You shouldn't have any trouble using a Glock. Just make sure the barrel is fitted correctly by a good gunsmith. And enjoy!

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Duane Trusty posted this 24 June 2013

James S

Good call, I use a Lee factory crimp die when I load for my Wolf barrel. That solved all my problems, reloading for the Glock barrel I can use Dillon dies as is,

Duane

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James S posted this 24 June 2013

Good point Duane, Lee Factory crimp dies give a very uniform crimp. There's a lot of banging around inside a pistol magazine! Something not everyone wants in a BR but necessary in a semi auto pistol!

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PETE posted this 24 June 2013

Specops,

Another question answered. I was wondering about bullet diam. I see you use .359. My standard 9mm bullet drops from the mold at .360 so should work. Will push a slug thru to see what's needed. Looking at the 9mm in case I haven't mentioned it.

James S.

According to Wolfe web site their barrels for the Block are supposed to just drop in with no fitting required.

Duane,

Good to know about being able to use the Dillon dies. They are what I've got.

Pete

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 24 June 2013

while you are at the gun store, check out a springfield dsm ... ooops, i just noticed you didn't ask me ...

ken

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PETE posted this 24 June 2013

Ken,

I didn't make my message specific to any one person. I'm hoping to get replies for anyone that can provide me with good info. I'll be at the DSM show this weekend as that seems to be the only place where you can see just about every model and caliber Glock makes.

I've had friends tell me I'm crazy and ought to look at getting a S&W M&P. Cant argue with that, but I'm interested in the why the Glock doesn't seem to shoot cast bullets well.

Pete

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James S posted this 25 June 2013

Well Pete don't have anything to say about what they are supposed to do. lol All I know is it wouldn't feed with the LW barrel, “as is". The chamber edge and ramp was definitely hanging rounds up. Although my experience with Glocks is limited, I've not seen any barrel just drop in with no “fitting". So be warned. James.

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specops posted this 25 June 2013

Pete, It's hard to get a good measurement on a poly barrel by slugging it. Glocks have somewhat “generous” chambers normally but best results still come from experimentation. Here's my results from my Model 19. Range was approximately 20 yards over sandbags. .356 - wouldn't stay on a B-27 target .357 - 12 out of 15 rounds hit the target, no group .358 - 6''-8'' groups stringing vertically .359 - 2"-3” groups centered .360 - 6” groups with random dispersion.

Doesn't seem to be much difference between subsonic and +P load accuracy or lack thereof. I did have 1 badly budged case with a +P load and the .360 slug. I'm assuming it was that gray area between FTF and fully seated. The round before and the round after didn't show a problem. I did get some light lead streaking at the muzzle with the .356 through .358 loads. I have a 358156HP that drops .359 and weights 148gr. with GC in place. Been wanting to try it but haven't had the time yet. No sure how the GC will react to bullet deformation by the rifling. Another project and another excuse to go shooting.

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PETE posted this 25 June 2013

Specops,

Thanks! Good stuff. Just what I'm looking for.

I have a .356 ( actually .357) & .359 sizing dies so can give some of your ideas a try. Might give an idea of how to proceed. Getting sizing dies are hard to find these days just like most other reloading supplies so I'm hoping what I have will work. The bullet I'm using in the current 9 mm is the RCBS-9mm-124(130)gr. - RN. As I mentioned it casts out at .360 so will be able to use that. In an RIA 1911-A1 it shoots like the best results your getting.

Seems from what you, and everyone is saying I might have to go to an after market barrel. But your 2"-3” groups should be sufficient if I can get the same results.

What powders have you tried?

Pete

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Duane Trusty posted this 25 June 2013

Pete

For use with a 124 grain cast I use the following:

Red Dot - 4.0 Grains

Accurate #5 - 5.6 Grains

Use at your own descretion

Duane

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PETE posted this 26 June 2013

Thanks Duane. Have both powders so will be a good place to start.

Pete

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specops posted this 26 June 2013

Pete,

I've used Bullseye, Red Dot and Unique, 3.5-4.0 grs for starters. I like Red Dot and Unique better just because they bulk up in the case more and makes it easier to check loadings. Any powder in the same burn rate range as those should work as well. IF I ever find the right combination of bullet, powder and charge weight I'll set it up in one of my Pro1000 progressives and see how it does in bulk loading. As far as sizing dies are concerned, if you are not lubing the bullet try Lee dies. They are cheaper than the rest, you don't have to worry about having a stem to match the nose shape and they are easier to hone to a custom size if needed plus I think they seat GCs better if you are using those.
Best of Luck

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PETE posted this 27 June 2013

Specops,

Got your powders to so will have a full plate to try out in a few days. Checking the mold inventory I see I've got a full wad cutter mold. Wonder how that would work out ?

Pete

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