..........50 BMG...........

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  • Last Post 29 September 2013
WORKINGMANC2C posted this 09 June 2013

Hello all have just entered the world of the 50 bmg

since I only shoot cast this is a problem...

When I used the words cast and 50 bmg In the same sentence I was laughed out of the gun shop..

I am not only sure this can be done but done well , so I come to the experts for advise..

I have not cast for this caliber yet , still in the planning stages...

My thoughts in general are a 50/50 mix of ww and lino sized to .511 apply a light coat of copper plate then resized to .512 with a copper gas check..

I have no idea which lube would work best for this..

I have a noe 850 grFN mold.....very open to opinions for others....

A large box of once fired brass

cci primers

The powder I have is surplus for the 20mm Vulcan

I will be using the lee 50bmg loader

I cant locate 50bmg gas checks anywhere..

Any ideas advise or load data would be greatly appreciated.

..........THANKS TO ALL.............

............WORKINGMANC2C.......

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mckg posted this 09 June 2013

I have a gut feeling that only paper patched bullets lubed with the oil of a virgin sperm whale will work....   (sorry, don't pay attention, I'm very jealous.... ;)).

I made a quick google search and found this, dated 2005, for “cast in 50 bmg” : "For the 750-grain .50 BMG jacketed bullet, Accurate Arms lists a WC870 powder charge load at 195-grains starting and 218-grains maximum. WC870 is not a .50 BMG powder, it is the powder used for the 20mm Vulcan."

The last accurate free manual however doesn't show it.... but older manuals have some loads for full power FMJ's: http://castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/Accurate.html

I'll have a look at a few manuals, including LEE's and be back later.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 10 June 2013

tell us more-- lots more.

what ... er ... ” rifle ” are you launching these out of ...

weight ... rifling twist rate ... muzzle brake ... how about a silencer ... and muzzle velocity of about 900 fps ... dang ...

sight system ...

where do you shoot ??


anything that gets 7 bullets per pound of lead just gotta be interesting ( g ) ...

ken

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WORKINGMANC2C posted this 10 June 2013

AHHHHHH PAPER PATCHED BULLET MAY BE A GREAT IDEA..... Anyone have any extra virgin whale oil sitting around ??

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jhalcott posted this 10 June 2013

The ONLY .50 cast bullets I've shot are Black powder MUZZLE loader bullets. I HOPE you get some info and can pass it on here, ONE of the ranges I go to don't allow full house .50's. Bet they'd have a fit till I proved them I was ONLY shooting CAST at sedate velocities! OH YES, I have been known to stir the pot!!

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jhalcott posted this 10 June 2013

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=3&t=282520 See! you are NOT alone casting for the .50

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mckg posted this 10 June 2013

LEE's Modern reloading, Second Edition has some loads; one validates the info above (You can buy the data sheet for any caliber from them):

750gr Jacketed, oal 5.450 : ACCUR 8700 start:195.0 2322fps max: 218.0 2700fps

800 Grain Solid Bullet,oal 5.450: H 50 BMG start:225.0 2725fps max: 225.0 2725fps (typo?)

I would call Accurate and Hodgdon, or trust the www; google shows a lot of results ("cast in 50 bmg").

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WORKINGMANC2C posted this 10 June 2013

The rifle is a tactilite T1 upper with a 30 inch lothar-wather barrel,(cant remember the twist right now) sitting on a rock river lower

weight is 31 pounds as it sits on bathroom scale..

no brake as of now -afraid of lead build up I have a shark brake I may use if it proves safe..

Optics by night force..

I must do something soon an unfired rifle in the house drives me nuts

..............THANKS TO ALL...............

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onondaga posted this 10 June 2013

Bullet sizing dies will not make bullets bigger, don't forget that.

.511” bullets in lead alloy will likely shoot all over the place in 50 BMG.

Follow the known basics and get your bullet the largest size that will chamber in your rifle. If you don't know where to start , get some chamber casting alloy and do a chamber casting to capture your throat area of the chamber. The bullet size that is big enough to fill the throat and  contact the throat will be the most accurate for you with cast. Not so big that you cant hand chamber a round, but you should feel the bullet slide in the chamber throat while chambering a round with a cast bullet.

This will likely be .513- .515” --maybe even bigger if they will chamber. Check bullets from  your NOE 850 gr FN mold with a dummy round for throat fit before considering any sizing at all. If they chamber--shoot them un-sized. If they don't chamber, use the smallest amount of sizing that will allow chambering.

You mention copper plating, the only thing copper plating does to cast bullets is give an amount of copper to copper your bore. If your cast bullets fit properly snug with a reasonable alloy for your load pressure, you will have no leading even with a simple tumble lube like Lee Liquid Alox or the new and better commercially available 45:45:10 @ $15/quart

.511” is a big mistake. That is the size for jacketed bullets in the BMG. Cast bullets that size will have major major gas jetting,  heavy Leading,  tumbling in flight  and very poor accuracy.

Research the powders you may use. In general, for cast, the powder with the lowest pressure for the velocity is the best choice and gives a gentler soft start to the cast bullets  with a pressure curve that  is not sharply peaked. This generally means the slowest powder that will work reliably for your bullet weight.

Current Data from the Newest Lee 2nd Edition. The start loads for jacketed bullets will be about maximum for cast:

http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rhymeswithwhat/media/P6100153_zpsa7817d5a.jpg.html>

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onondaga posted this 10 June 2013

Here is a load #5230 from Reloaders Nest for the 800 gr Barnes solid. This is a MAX load for a solid copper alloy bullet in 50 BMG. A cast bullet has lower friction in the bore and will have lower pressure too. Starting 10% or more below this load would be a reasonable place for your NOE 800 gr cast bullet.

LoadID 5230 http://www.reloadersnest.com/legend.asp#Bullet>Bullet Barnes Solid http://www.reloadersnest.com/legend.asp#BulletWeight>BulletWeight 800 grs http://www.reloadersnest.com/legend.asp#Powder>Powder Hodgdon H50BMG http://www.reloadersnest.com/legend.asp#PowderWeight>PowderWeight 225 grs http://www.reloadersnest.com/legend.asp#Primer>Primer CCI 35 http://www.reloadersnest.com/legend.asp#BrassMake>Brass Make FNB http://www.reloadersnest.com/legend.asp#BarrelLength>Barrel Length 45 (inches) http://www.reloadersnest.com/legend.asp#COL>C.O.L 5.45 (inches) http://www.reloadersnest.com/legend.asp#Velocity>Velocity 2725 fps http://www.reloadersnest.com/legend.asp#Group>Group (inches by 3 shot at 100 yds) http://www.reloadersnest.com/legend.asp#SubmittedDate>Submitted Date 1/14/2003 5:19:00 PM http://www.reloadersnest.com/legend.asp#SubmittedBy>Submitted By
http://www.reloadersnest.com/legend.asp#GunInfo>Gun Info
http://www.reloadersnest.com/legend.asp#Comment>Comment
    http://www.reloadersnest.com/ogw.asp>Energy 13163 ft-lbs http://www.reloadersnest.com/ogw.asp>TKO 155.72 http://www.reloadersnest.com/ogw.asp>OGW 19425 lbs http://www.reloadersnest.com/ogw.asp>IPSC PF 2180

Reducing this load 10% may require a filler for ignition ..see my next comment with safety warning below!!!!

Gary

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onondaga posted this 10 June 2013

!WARNING!

The start and MAX load charge being the same in the Lee book indicates the powder is position sensitive and is NOT A TYPOGRAPHICAL ERROR.  When I reduce below a  load like that I use a filler like BPI Original Ballistic Filler  to bring the load density to 105%, mildly compress the load and cancel the position sensitivity dilemma of the particular powder by compressing the load with filler to enhance ignition.

Do that at your own risk. Becoming thoroughly familiar with the use of ballistic fillers is not for the light of IQ in the brain pan,  and not a simple procedure to learn easily.

Gary

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Pigslayer posted this 10 June 2013

WORKINGMANC2C wrote:

When I used the words cast and 50 bmg In the same sentence I was laughed out of the gun shop..

............WORKINGMANC2C.......

Ah yes . . . “The Naysayers". Contempt prior to investigation I'd say. There are those that fear what they do not understand. Just keep moving forward my man!

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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WORKINGMANC2C posted this 11 June 2013

STILL NO LUCK FINDING 50 BMG COPPER GAS CHECKS.

I WILL LOOK SOME MORE TOMMOROW

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onondaga posted this 11 June 2013

Go Aluminum. Nobody can tell the difference that I have read about or in my experience. If your shank size is standard for 50 cal, these will fit fine. If your shank size is bigger you can easily hand flare them with a large ball bearing to start them. All I use is aluminum checks in every caliber from this supplier:

http://www.sagesoutdoors.com/index.php?id_product=24&controller=product>http://www.sagesoutdoors.com/index.php?idproduct=24&controller=product

James and his son are members here and this is a nice family business with great prices and very fast shipping. If you have any questions, contact Sages through their site, tell them your shank size and your sized bullet diameter.  They really make an effort to please their customers. They may even help you with a custom size if that is what you need.

Gary

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Brodie posted this 11 June 2013

If you want to paper patch that big browning read the posts under that heading . You should be able to get jacketed velocities with good accuracy out of lead bullets. Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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onondaga posted this 11 June 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=1118>Old Coot:

That is a fine idea I hadn't considered recommending, I'd try that too!!! You don't even need gas checks installed for paper patched bullets. they would lower inventory to start and raise velocity  to par with jacketed bullets.

It is a new skill to learn for the poster, http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=7562>WORKINGMANC2C  but not a difficult one and very practical for his application. That would really be a hoot on the guys at his gun shop to spring paper patched bullets in  50 BMG  on them and show them the results on targets. I could see the deer in the headlight faces from here after their reaction to cast bullets.

Paper patching is a lot easier and more accurate to get a good fit of cast bullets than a lot of custom work with chamber casting,  molds, sizers  and gas checks. I'd go there in a heartbeat for 50 BMG.

The OP may not even be familiar with shooting PP cast bullets  at all.  He has a great place to start however with 50 BMG. Please give him some specific links if you can http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=1118>Old Coot.

Gary

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WORKINGMANC2C posted this 11 June 2013

Thanks again guys

I have done a little paper patching with an old sharp's 50/140 I had back in the day.

I only tried it with the holly black..

To me it would have been a sin to run smokeless powder in that rifle..

Maybe I will call the shop this afternoon and ask if they have a paper patch 50 bmg bullet mold in stock..lol

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Brodie posted this 11 June 2013

Take a regular grease groove cast bullet, cast from clip on wheel weights or Lyman#2, size to BORE DIAMETER + .oo1 or .oo2, patch, lube with paste wax, size to GROOVE DIA = .001 or .002, or the fit throat.  Load using jacketed data, preferably  a compressed charge to help hold bullet in place, and shoot .  Then fool around until you find the best shooting load.  Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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WORKINGMANC2C posted this 11 June 2013

WHEN YOU ARE PAPER PATCHING I THOUGHT IT WAS BETTER TO

USE A BULLET WITH NO LUBE GROOVES ??????

................WORKINGMANC2C.......................

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onondaga posted this 12 June 2013

Either works fine, be more concerned with what sizing dies you need and what bullet diameters you have to work with. Slug your bore and slug your chamber throat. That is where to start. When you get good land to land and good groove to groove measurements then good throat dimensions the rest is easy.

Then you have all the info you need for help selecting molds and sizers for cast, or PP'd bullets.

Let us know your measurements are and make sure they are accurate and repeatable for your own confidence.

Gary

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 12 June 2013

a couple more gizzies that i have had some/occasional luck with for pushing big bullets a little faster are the wax sheet wads from CFVENTURES , also homemade paper wad cups seated backwards under the bullet base ...i got a lathe, so i made a little simple punch and cup set to make miniature reeses' pieces cup - like ” reversed gas checks ” out of various materials ...

they look like overpowder wads for shotshells ..

if you have a lathe, i could send you a box of ultra high density polyE falloff 1” round bar ... to play with ... 5$ for ship, material free ( g ) .


can't wait til you enter a CBA postal with that rig ... ” unlimited ” maybe ?

ken

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