22 savage high power

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  • Last Post 26 February 2013
Muskrat Mike posted this 23 February 2013

I would like to cast some bullets for a friends 22 high power and eventually for one of my own in the future. I can't seem to find any old Lyman 228 molds. Does anyone have any advice or suggestions??? Thanks ahead of time!

Muskrat Mike

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 23 February 2013

rule 1 ( maybe it was 2 ... ) do a soft lead upset image of your chamber and throat,also a half inch or so of your rifling just ahead of the throat ... or a cerrosafe casting of same.

you need to really pin down those dimensions before throwing ...time .. and/or money at getting a good result ( they say good result racing in europe .. ( g ) .. )

most rifles vary a bit, and the older ones usually a little more.

it might not be out of the question to use a 6mm mold and size it down a LOT and still get good accuracy .!!! alloy #2 & softer swages nicely, 2 steps down should be easy.

btw, i am eating my heart out about your hi-power ! a guy near here shot one about 1985 or so ...

keep us up to date, my favorite shootin thing is to take a neat old rifle and make it hit a bean can at 50 ...ok, 40... yards ..

ken

a lot of molds find their way to ebay ..

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grouch posted this 23 February 2013

Perhaps a chat with Veral Smith at LBT would be in order Grouch

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Ed Harris posted this 23 February 2013

I agree with Grouch. If he really likes the rifle, the best thing is to have a mold custom-cut to fit and get the best results.

You want to get an upset throat slug to know what diameter and profile to make the bullet fit exactly, and you should measure twist to be sure your chosen bullet will stabilize.

The Savage 99 is forgiving in feeding flatnosed bullets, and I think one of Veral's LFN (Long Flatnose) bullets would be a real winner for both paper punching and hunting.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Muskrat Mike posted this 23 February 2013

Ed Harris wrote: I agree with Grouch. If he really likes the rifle, the best thing is to have a mold custom-cut to fit and get the best results.

You want to get an upset throat slug to know what diameter and profile to make the bullet fit exactly, and you should measure twist to be sure your chosen bullet will stabilize.

The Savage 99 is forgiving in feeding flatnosed bullets, and I think one of Veral's LFN (Long Flatnose) bullets would be a real winner for both paper punching and hunting.Thanks everybody for the responses! I'm a retired plumber used to working in feet and half feet so please bear with me when I ask some questions.

1 I know how to get the twist but how do I get an upset throat slug??  Should i get him to take it to a gunsmith or is it something I can do?

2 once I get those dimensions what do I do with them?  I'm assuming I give them to somebody like Veral and he would take it from there?

Thanks everybody again.  I have been doing a lot of casting the last couple of years and learning a lot from this forum but as I learn more I discover how much more there is to go!

Muskrat Mike

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Ed Harris posted this 23 February 2013

If you contact Veral, he can send you a throat slugging kit. Instructions are on his web site. I recommend his book also. After you get the throat slug, send it to him with your mold order and he can make a bullet to fit.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Muskrat Mike posted this 24 February 2013

Ed Harris wrote: If you contact Veral, he can send you a throat slugging kit. Instructions are on his web site. I recommend his book also. After you get the throat slug, send it to him with your mold order and he can make a bullet to fit. Thank You so much!!!

Mike

Muskrat Mike

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.22-10-45 posted this 24 February 2013

Hello, Muskrat. This is a bit more work..and slow, but to get you started on shootable slugs, a #1 drill is .228” dia. Industrial supply houses sell hardened & ground drill bushings. a flat faced bottom punch & a nose punch with drilled cavity custom fitted to .22 bullet nose via epoxy method..and you have an old time 3 piece hammer swage die. .22's usually drop around .225” or so..only .003 or .004” to swage, .0015” to .002"/side. Lube first so as to support grooves.

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gnoahhh posted this 24 February 2013

.22-10-45 wrote: Hello, Muskrat. This is a bit more work..and slow, but to get you started on shootable slugs, a #1 drill is .228” dia. Industrial supply houses sell hardened & ground drill bushings. a flat faced bottom punch & a nose punch with drilled cavity custom fitted to .22 bullet nose via epoxy method..and you have an old time 3 piece hammer swage die. .22's usually drop around .225” or so..only .003 or .004” to swage, .0015” to .002"/side. Lube first so as to support grooves.

Yep That's pretty much what I do, in addition to making my own .229” die for the lubrisizer. (Sometimes the lathe comes in handy for truly important jobs!) I also have an old Lyman/Ideal 228367 mold that the bullets from which have performed well in a few Savage .22HP's. Drop me a PM and I'll send you a few to try out, if you wish.

The .22 High Power is an interesting cartridge to play with, and not without its quirks. I have killed many different game animals with them, from squirrels (with Squibb loads) to deer (with full strength jacketed loads). If I were limited to just one Savage lever gun, it would be a hard choice between the .22HP and a .303. As an aside, I recently picked up an old Marbles cartridge adapter for shooting .22 rim fires in the .22HP. I'm not expecting to set the world on fire with it, but it should be fun to try out. (I would've if the weather would have cooperated this past Saturday!)

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onondaga posted this 24 February 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=1594>Muskrat Mike: Cerrosafe has been mentioned as a good chamber'throat/leade/barrel casting alloy and it is.

A great product for this and less inexpensive is the one from RotoMetals. Read the instructions and comments on the page too. I think it is better than Cerrosafe: http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/chamber_casting_alloy.htm>http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/chambercastingalloy.htm

And. only $15.99/lb

Additionally, I prefer the Lee push through bullet sizing dies in their kits with lube included. The dies are easily honed for custom sizes with a short slotted dowel, a strip of emery cloth and cutting oil with a hand electric drill on slow. I size/check at .2252” with the 225646 bullet in my .223 Rem. single shot Handi  or my AR15. I actually honed a .224 to a .2252” when the .225"was unavailable.

Lee .225 Lube & Size kit that works on your loading press: https://fsreloading.com/lee-precision-new-lube-size-kit-.225-90036.html

$19.18/kit

Gary

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 25 February 2013

from an old ( 1990 ) ad by rcbs ..... they have a few special molds for a 0.230x bullet ... #22-060 fn ... might be interesting to call rcbs to see if they one lying around still ... or if they would make you one ...

but still better, measure YOUR gun and then look for the mold to make a bullet to fit ...

ken

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singleshot1 posted this 26 February 2013

Mike, RCBS mould is a special order. I bought one a few years ago, darn nice mould. If I recall right, it came out right on the money, at ,228. It looks a lot like Lyman#225415,think thats the right number, it is a gas check design. I haven't shot mine yet, health issues. Did shoot up some old Lyman .228 dia. bullets that came with a used Lyman .228 sizer die, they shot ok.:coffee Dave Norman

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Muskrat Mike posted this 26 February 2013

Thank you everybody for all the good advice! It is my buddies gun and He's waiting on some jacketed .227 bullets he found and ordered. I have made him some cases by running 30/30cases through my 25/35 die first then through my 22 hp die. He reloads but doesn't cast bullets. I have been looking for an affordable shooter myself and we're using his for a learning experience. If the jacketed bullets aren't successful for him then I think I will take the good advice from everybody and learn how to do a chamber cast and get a custom mold made. When I finally get one myself I definitely will get a custom mold to cast for it.  Thank you for all the help. Mike

Muskrat Mike

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gnoahhh posted this 26 February 2013

At the risk of driving off the road into the weeds, you bring up the most important issue with shooting the .22 High Power in these modern times. First of all, the old 1899 Savage HP's were rifled with a 1-12” rate of twist (ROT). That ROT is barely enough to stabilize the long heavy bullets which the cartridge is built around. The current commonly available bullet, the .227 70 grain spire point from Hornady, is too long to be well stabilized. As we know, it's the length of the bullet that matters in this instance, not weight, and the Hornady bullet is too long at .850". I found that trimming them to .800” length or shorter improves accuracy dramatically. I speculate that this Hornady bullet was intended for the European market and their fast twist 5.6x52R stalking rifles. On the plus side, they are abundant and cheap.

The original factory 70 gr. loadings used round nosed or semi-spitzer shaped bullets that were just short enough to stabilize. The current Norma and Sellier&Bellot  loads use bullets that are similar, and also work well. Speer used to make a short enough semi-spitzer 70 grainer that was a dream- but is now discontinued. If you stumble onto any old Sisk bullets, grab them as they were wonderful too. Buffalo Arms sells some lightweight and hence short enough bullets but I suspect them to be not heavily constructed for deer hunting. (They do shoot well in my experience though.)

Another note regarding cases: making them out of .25/35's or .30/30's is the way to go, but a PIA. The European HiPowers (5.6x52R) are nominally ok to use, but something was lost in the translation from U.S. to metric dimensions and as a result are a tad bit small in their head diameters. This combined with some sloppy chamber dimensions can make for short case life- especially if said brass is gotten by firing factory loads. Those Euro loads are hotter than old U.S. factory loads, which does nothing for initial case life too.

I found that staying at 25 grains of 3031 or 26 grains 4895, or less, with a 70 gr. bullet, makes for a pleasant medium load that is accurate, gives good case life, and kills deer with alacrity.

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