Interesting problem with 1894 Marlin

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  • Last Post 21 January 2016
GBertolet posted this 30 August 2012

I have a 45LC 1894 Marlin with an oversized chamber. I have been told the factory does this deliberately to aid feeding, and by using oversize reamers, they can cut more chambers before they are too small. Anyhow, I am starting to get an inordinate amount of case splits. I measured the diameter of a fired case and found it was .485. The maximun case diameter according to the Lyman manual is .480. My Lyman T/C sizer die sizes the cases to .473 diameter. There is 12 thousandths expansion and resizing here, and I think this is what's causing the splits. The loaded ammo rattles going into the chamber. Dummy rounds, using fired and unsized cases, chamber easily, but there is no neck tension on the bullets. They are locked in place by the crimp, but they spin. I am using .454 bullets. I feel less sizing and therefore less expansion will solve this problem, plus a larger case will align the bullet better to the bore, improving accuracy somewhat.

What is the best solution to work around this problem? I have an unused RCBS steel sizer die for the 45LC, which I tied lapping out. I spent an hour and only increased the diameter by about a thousandth. Not too promising as the die is super hard. I thought also, maybe a Lee factory crimp, or a Redding profile crimp die die might work on unsized cases, giving  satisfactory bullet tension. Any guidence or suggestions would be appreciated.

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CB posted this 30 August 2012

Try sizing only enough of the case to hold the bullet securely, essentially “neck” sizing the case. It may help

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GBertolet posted this 30 August 2012

Thank you, that's one possible solution.

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mike morrison posted this 30 August 2012

cut a piece of pipe,tubing, piece of bbl to fit over the case in the shell holder to allow only the amount desired into the sizing die. this will neck size the case then load as notmal. works great. m OR you can just back out the sizing die to accomplish the same thing.

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GBertolet posted this 30 August 2012

The thing I would be concerned about, is the case neck will still be expanded 12 thou upon firing, and reduced 12 thou down again upon resizing. I still might have the case splits. Somehow, I would like to size the neck down about half as much in diameter as it is being sized now.

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CB posted this 30 August 2012

What does your bore slug to? If it's microgroove, it's probably oversized a bit too. A custom mould that works with the bore diameter & I.D. of the fired case might help.

We had a similar thread not too long ago, it may help a bit:

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/viewtopic.php?id=8717&forumid=4

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EdS posted this 30 August 2012

If the chamber is larger than the SAAMI specifications, Marlin should rebarrel the rifle for you. I'd at least ask. -Ed

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GBertolet posted this 30 August 2012

I previously slugged the bore and it is .451 exactly and it's the Ballard type rifling. The gun is a 2001 Cowboy Limited, so I doubt the factory will want to hear about it now. There was a post on the Marlin Owners Forum about oversized chambers on 1894's. The Marlin owners complaining, had chambers far more oversize than mine. 44mag and 45LC calibers were the most complained about. Some were even complaining of gas leakage spitting powder particles out the action. Their problem was far worse than mine. Marlin was not very sympathetic in most cases. The usual response, “It's within manufacturing standards". Unfortunately that thread proposed no owner fixes to this condition, other than try to get the factory to rebarrel to correct this. Some owners just sold their 1894's out of frustration.

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Ed Harris posted this 30 August 2012

I bought one of those “sold in frustration” .45 Colt cowboys and had John Taylor set the barrel back and rechamber to .45 ACP. Cheap common brass and you are not fighting all that excess case capacity. It's my favorite “plunker."

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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GBertolet posted this 31 August 2012

Thanks Ed, I'm knee deep in 45LC brass, so I can't justify switching to 45 ACP, although it's an interesting concept. I guess the 45 AR would work well also if you wanted a rimmed case.

I did finally hone the steel sizer die out 6 thousandths. I chucked it in a lathe and used a brake cylinder hone one shoe at a time to get the desired result. I left a slight taper towards the case mouth, which I am glad I did, as it's just enough to grip and hold a .453 bullet. I shot 50 of these reloaded cases, and the soot on the cases is gone, and there is not a noticable bulge anymore. I can probably can go more on the honing yet, but if I do I will have to beagle my Lyman 4 cavity mold to give .455 or .456 bullets to get proper neck tension. I haven't tried partial case sizing, with the T/C sizer yet to see how that works improving the case fit in the chamber.

I haven't benched the 1894 for any serious accuracy testing yet, so I don't know how much, if any accuracy improvement will be gained. I feel I am on the way though. A snugger fitting case, with the bullet better aligned with the bore, I think could only help accuracy. We shall see.

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muley posted this 01 September 2012

What is the possiblity of setting the barrel back, as Ed Harris had done, and rechamber to a 45LC minimum chamber? measure your case as loaded and add a couple thousands and rechamber.

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GBertolet posted this 01 September 2012

Setting the barrel back and rechambering is a viable possibility, and may ultimately turn out to be the best option. It's a cost vs gain thing. But before investing the money to do this, I would like to see what results are achieved from what I have already done.

muley, I see you are from Factoryville. I used to shoot IPSC there regularly. Your club there is very nice.

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steveco posted this 01 September 2012

Ed, I'm curious to know what sight setup you are using. Steve

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Ed Harris posted this 01 September 2012

XS Systems ghost ring peep sight with .10” wide parallel-sided, flat top post front sight.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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steveco posted this 01 September 2012

Thanks Ed! Do you recall the height of the front post?

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Ed Harris posted this 01 September 2012

.495", but you could probably get away with a .395-.400” for short range (50 yards) shooting because my rear sight aperture is elevated a bit.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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steveco posted this 01 September 2012

Thanks Ed. I had John Taylor set back and re-chamber my 1894 as well. Looking forward to getting it out.

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w30wcf posted this 18 October 2012

GBertolet wrote: I have a 45LC 1894 Marlin with an oversized chamber. I have been told the factory does this deliberately to aid feeding....

I measured the diameter of a fired case and found it was .485. The maximun case diameter according to the Lyman manual is .480. My Lyman T/C sizer die sizes the cases to .473 diameter.....

I feel less sizing and therefore less expansion will solve this problem, plus a larger case will align the bullet better to the bore, improving accuracy somewhat.

What is the best solution to work around this problem?.......

GBertolet, First, the chamber is made to SAMMI specifications rather than, “the factory making it larger to aid feeding". SAAMI specs call for a maximum chamber dimension of .490” dia at the rear and .484” diameter at the front. Minimum is -.004” from those dimensions.

My chambers are running .488 / .482. I ended up just neck sizing the brass to about 1/16” below where the bullet base will rest. I do that using a Lyman carbide die backed out to just neck size the case when the ram is at its uppermost position. With the Lyman die, the decapping pin can be extended far enough to decap during the partial sizing operation.

Good luck, w30wcf

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M3 Mitch posted this 28 October 2015

<user=1738>GBertolet wrote:” I have a 45LC 1894 Marlin with an oversized chamber. I have been told the factory does this deliberately to aid feeding, and by using oversize reamers, they can cut more chambers before they are too small. Anyhow, I am starting to get an inordinate amount of case splits. I measured the diameter of a fired case and found it was .485. The maximun case diameter according to the Lyman manual is .480. My Lyman T/C sizer die sizes the cases to .473 diameter. There is 12 thousandths expansion and resizing here, and I think this is what's causing the splits. The loaded ammo rattles going into the chamber. Dummy rounds, using fired and unsized cases, chamber easily, but there is no neck tension on the bullets. They are locked in place by the crimp, but they spin. I am using .454 bullets. I feel less sizing and therefore less expansion will solve this problem, plus a larger case will align the bullet better to the bore, improving accuracy somewhat. What is the best solution to work around this problem? I have an unused RCBS steel sizer die for the 45LC, which I tied lapping out. I spent an hour and only increased the diameter by about a thousandth. Not too promising as the die is super hard. I thought also, maybe a Lee factory crimp, or a Redding profile crimp die die might work on unsized cases, giving  satisfactory bullet tension. Any guidence or suggestions would be appreciated."

 

I think you can send the sizing die and a couple of fired, unsized cases back to RCBS and they will open up the die to match your chamber.  At least I have heard of them doing this.  You can always ask. 

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mike morrison posted this 29 October 2015

I have used a Lee factory carbide crimp die as a sizing die with the crimp ring removed. This leaves the case at the maximum size. Your .454 bullets should fit snug. Not a lot of cost if it does not work for you. Your brass should have a longer life. Hope this helps.

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Baltimoreed11754 posted this 15 January 2016

My Marlin 1894 Cowboy is a great shooter but acted up a few years ago. I had to jb weld a piece of coping saw blade to the lifter to get it cycling smooth again. But as to the post, my chamber is also odd as my fired brass has always had a slight but noticeable bulge about 2/3 down from the mouth. Its only on one side but the gun has never split any of my brass. The original poster didnt say if he's using nickel or brass brass. Nickel plated brass is very brittle and splits a lot easier than brass brass. If the rifle is a good one then to have the bbl set back and rechambered would be the best solution. But before doing that i would try a different set of reloading dies just to make sure thats not the issue. Maybe borrow a set from a friend. I had a new 25-06 Sendero that i bought RCBS dies for only to find that the sizer die was too large and the loaded cases wouldn't chamber. Called RCBS, mailed them the die and 3 fired factory brass and the new die worked fine. Just a thought.

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