03A3 Range test

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  • Last Post 12 March 2012
onondaga posted this 19 February 2012

I recently posted about putting new sights on my newly acquired rifle and the weather was good for my first range test today with the 1903A3. Temp was 33 Deg. F and winds 10 mph cross range. The new sight went on without a hitch,and adjusted right in.

Firing the rifle was much different than expected. Lock time is the slowest I have ever experienced in my life. This lock is slower than my Flintlock. I can hear the trigger click, see the firing pin move in and then it bangs. I have never had an 03A3 before and don't know if this is typical. Anyway I will take down the bolt again and polish parts / re-lube again to see if I can cut the lock time down.

My first load was with H. 380 at 39 grains pushing the Lee 170 gr FN about 2240 fps. I did not work up to this load for accuracy and just wanted to try the new for me rifle. Not bad at 50 yards and the rifle has potential:

I have 2 other bullets I can try and several powders to play with. Likely I will settle on the H380 or H4895.  Both groups were just over 1 MOA at 50 yards and I can live with that for a first try with the 1903A3.

Gary

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CB posted this 20 February 2012

Gary,

You are right - not too bad for a first try, especially at such a high velocity.

I may not be able to read the numbers on the targets correctly but it looks like the width are 1.2” and 1.4". If the range was 50 yards that would translate to somewhere around 2.5 MOA not I. Am I reading the numbers right?

John

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onondaga posted this 20 February 2012

John, I should have focused in better in the numbers . the top group:

MAX: 1.650", 3.153 MOA Avg. to Center. 0.549", 1.239 MOA Width: 1.290", Height:  1.176" Target Distance: 50 Yards

bottom group:

Max: 1.439", 2.749 MOA Avg. to Center: 0.456", 1.043 MOA Width: 1.414", Height: 0.98" Target Distance: 50 Yards

Gary

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72coupe posted this 20 February 2012

The lock time on 03s is slow. Its all that mass the relatively light  firing pin spring has to move. Some people put one of Wolf's stronger spring in them but that changes the bolt lift.

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tturner53 posted this 20 February 2012

That's good shooting. My 03a3 looks as issued from a distance but is modified to accept a scope, has a Wolfe 20 lb(IIRC) spring and a Timney trigger. Bolt lift is a little harder but lock time is waaay faster. I'm working on a “modified' postal match shooter and maybe the Military Rifle National Tournament next time it's out west.

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CB posted this 20 February 2012

Gary,

Thanks for the clear numbers.

I think I see that when you say “Both groups were just over 1 MOA at 50 yards” you are referring to the average distance of the holes from the center of the group. Is that correct?

I was confused because usually when someone says MOA group they mean the center to center distance between the two widest holes are about one inch at 100 yds. or .5 inch at fifty yards.

The measure of average distance from group center is probably statistically a better measure of the accuracy - just not the usual way shooters talk about group sizes. John

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 20 February 2012

heh heh ,,, it seems that there are still several approaches to communicating our shooting results ....

for instance, here is a copy of a shooter's post here from back in august 2010  ..  note moa reference ...  

. At the end of that string there were flakes and slivers of lead on the first patch but the last group had been2.0 MOA (half an inch at 50 yards).

heh heh, evidently yet another hybrid measuring system of some kind .   

i suppose in the interest of full disclosure that earlier poster was ....  uh ....  a jalexander ....   maybe those weird 75 gr 22 bullets are hard to measure ....

hey, just enjoying myself  in iowa  (g)

yur buddy ken

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cityboy posted this 20 February 2012

Sounds to me like something is wrong. perhaps th firing pin is draging or the spring is bad. I fired an O3A3 for several years and don't recall the firing pin being so slow. Is there a gob of grease or something in the bolt?

Jim

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onondaga posted this 20 February 2012

jalexander:

Yes John.there is “Average To Center MOA” and “Max” MOA. I put both because the program I run, '"On Target", spits out both.

72coupe and  tturner53:

Thanks for the bolt tips. After I polish the parts I'm gonna try Slick 50 instead of grease and see if that does it. Going to consider that new spring too. I ordered a Springfield Armory brand sling also, leather is supposed to be 1/4 inch thick! I did read complaints about  the cotton stitching being thin cotton,  so I will replace the stitching with waxed artificial sinew that I have here. it is very strong and I have worked with it before successfully.   I think the trigger on my rifle is an after market trigger already, it is very light, less than 3 pound pull.

The LimbSaver recoil pad was very effective and shooting the rifle was all fun, no pain.

Gary

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72coupe posted this 20 February 2012

Try a 314299 sized to 310 over 9 grains of Red Dot and you will not need that recoil pad.

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onondaga posted this 21 February 2012

I fixed the bolt!!!!

After dissemble and clean I looked over all parts trying to find one that was galled,  and I did. The striker collar that retains the striker and holds the main spring was galled and rough. It  bears on the bored surface inside the bolt . I put it on a dowel and spun the striker collar in a chuck so I could turn down all the galling marks and then polished the part to a shine. I polished the bolt boring for the striker, mainspring and firing pin. All bearing bolt surfaces were also pre-polished with Tripoli compound and then high shine compound on  rag buffing wheels with my polishing lathe.

The bolt was cleaned of polishing compounds with mineral spirits, then re-lubed with Slick 50 and assembled. It feels very good and the binding is completely gone! The lock time is noticeably quicker and now I can't wait to fire the rifle again.

Gary

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Rich/WIS posted this 27 February 2012

I have a CMP A3 and one I built from a reactivated  drill rifle.  I have had good accuracy in both with 14 gr SR7625 and either the Lee 170 FP or RCBS 165 SIL.  Velocity is probably in the 15-1600 fps range, recoil is very mild, and accuracy is excellent.  I shoot at 25 yards as it is easier for me to see the target.and I can fust about make shots touch at 25 yards.  In my Win M70 with a scope this load will shoot into about 2 minutes of angle, and I would expect the A3 to do as well, maybe better with the 2 groove barrel.

Firing pin fall is slower than modern rifles, but think you may have resolved that issue.

 

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onondaga posted this 27 February 2012

Rich/WIS: Just got back from range. I lowered my charge to 37 grains H380 with the Lee 170 gr FNGC bullet for velocity about 2180 fps. Groups were noticeably smaller.

I did have trouble at the range, After about 20 shots the lock time went slow again and misfires started. The rifle is oosing cosmaline from somewhere that is getting into the chamber. and onto the shoulder of cases.. I had to stop and brush the chamber. That helped only temporarily and it gunked up fast again. I think the very slow burning H380 powder is not being digested by the rifle either. The low pressure load is not sealing the brass case neck in the chamber and I get blackened case necks every shot.

The bolt has been stripped 3 times and cleaned/polished. I will scope the breech and action to look for more old grease.

The lock time slowing down is puzzling me. It started fast then slowed down. I will polish the striker to a shine and check the striker pin hole in the bolt face. Something has this bolt gunked up and slows it down lock time very noticeably after 10-15 shots.

I will try loads with H4895 and Accurate 2230 next. The rifle does not like H380.

Any suggestions would be great!

Gary

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delmarskid1 posted this 28 February 2012

It sounds as if you do have some grease hiding in there. The lock slowing down may be explained by the rifle being warm from being indoors or in the warm car and then cooling at the range. As the grease cools it gets stiffer and slows things down. Maybe? If it were mine I would take it out of the stock and upend the whole action in a can of paint thinner, gasoline, diesel, or Rolling Rock beer. Just kidding about the gasoline. It's too expensive.

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Rich/WIS posted this 28 February 2012

I have been using light loads in mine to give me minimal recoil and good accuracy just seemed to come with it. NIce too because it is inexpensive to shoot. The 14 gr load of SR7625 costs me about 6 cents for powder, another 5 or 6 for primer and GC and I don't need a fancy alloy, 50/50 lino and range scrap is plenty hard. 

There are a lot of places for cosmo/grease to hide in an A3.  Had to use near a full can of brake cleaner on my CMP rifle and it wasn't as bad as some  I have seen.  Keep at it, you will win in the end.

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onondaga posted this 28 February 2012

72coupe:

Thank you for your suggestion on the Wolff spring. I found their homepage, opened an account and ordered a 26 pound mainspring for my rifle.

Link to Wolff:

http://www.gunsprings.com/Rifles%20%26%20Shotguns/SPRINGFIELD/1903-%20ALL%20MODIFICATIONS/cID2/mID60/dID274>http://www.gunsprings.com/Rifles%20%26%20Shotguns/SPRINGFIELD/1903-%20ALL%20MODIFICATIONS/cID2/mID60/dID274

They list the reference standard issue spring at 16 pounds and MidwayUsa listed one at 24 pounds but was out of stock. So I ordered direct from Wolff and ordered one 2 pounds heavier than the one from Midway. It will likely be hard to compress, but I will get it in. Unfortunately Wolff says orders are delayed 2 weeks due to high volume. I am happy they were honest about that.

Gary

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runfiverun posted this 29 February 2012

24.5 grs aa-2230 is a good start. and 28.5 grs of 4895 is too. both do better with some dacron.

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onondaga posted this 29 February 2012

Rich/WIS  and  runfiverun: Thanks for the load suggestions. I hope I don't have to go that  low in velocity and use a filler to get accuracy. My other .30 caliber rifles have  given me 1MOA at 2100 fps to 2150 fps with cast bullets.

I got this rifle for a fun rifle to take to the range so I don't mind at all working with a lot of loads to get one that will give accuracy at what I consider adequate velocity for my hunting areas. Personally I tend to load to get about 2150 fps with a bunch of powders and bullet sizing and see if one of them works!

My younger grandson just got his hunting license and I have hunted with the older one for 3 years so far. The younger one just got a .22 and has no center fire for Big Game, so he will likely use the 1903A3 this fall and I don't want him to have to use a lower velocity rifle than his brothers! Boys notice stuff like that. I will get that 03 shooting 2100-2150 fps with something. 

Gary

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runfiverun posted this 29 February 2012

those are in the 19-1950 fps range. bump them up 30 of the 4895 will give the speed you want. and 27 of the 2230 will too. it's just that medium powders really do a lot better with a filler. it really cut's down on extreme velocity spread. and vertical stringing.

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onondaga posted this 12 March 2012

Thanks to 72coupe and tturner53 for recommending Wolff Springs. I ordered direct. My new 26# spring came today and I am happy and impressed! The bolt is a little heavier to cock but lock time is splendidly FAST. The new spring makes a world of difference.

Gary

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72coupe posted this 12 March 2012

I think this will also shrink your group size as you are probably getting better ignition from your primers.

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