Lee Luber/Sizer

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  • Last Post 22 December 2012
joeb33050 posted this 17 February 2012

I got one at last, and it works just fine. I put the gas checks on, lube the bullet and gas check with fingers and liquid lanolin, push-through size, then lube the bottom groove with the Lyman 450. This with 314299 cast at .314” sized to .309". The gap above the gas check is small and even, telling me that the GC is on tight and square. Question: When sizing with a smaller difference, say from as-cast .311” to .309", is the GC still crimped on tight and square? It seems that there needs to be resistance to get the bottom punch to mash the GC on the base before the bullet gets sized?? Thanks; joe b.

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Duane Mellenbruch posted this 17 February 2012

The size die holds the bullet straight while the flat end of the push rod presses against the base of the gas check.  Flat, square, and even.  If the base of the casting is uneven, perhaps when you fire the shot, there may be some distortion, but that would be lack of quality control of the caster, not the fault of the sizing operation.

Duane

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Axel posted this 09 December 2012

If you use a soft enough lube (one that you can smear into the grooves with your fingers) it can be done all in one step. No need for a Lubrisizer.

If the gas checks look square and don't easily come off when you pull on them they're probably fine.

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delmarskid1 posted this 09 December 2012

I have a couple of molds that have a bigger gas check shank. These don't take the gas check with finger pressure. I seat the gas check separately using the press or I stand the bullet on the bench and push on the nose with a dowel or some other nonsense. I just hate the idea of the gas check crimping in the sizing die without it being in the right place.

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joeb33050 posted this 09 December 2012

Some gas checks get a “sharp"? rough feel to the edges, and look rough under magnification. Sorta swaged looking down pointing knurls. Now, I put on the gcs by hand,seat gcs,size the whole bullet, then lube the wanted grooves. That's 4 operations, 3 in the 450. If I try to size and lube in 1 step, the forward band doesn't size OR too many grooves lube.Also inspect after seating gcs and after lubing to assure no lube voids. Last time it took 1 hr 25 min to gc, size and lube 103 bullets-314299. Some day I'll, get back to the Lee sizer. BTW, I've been using Lyman Super Moly for a couple of years, and I'm still a believer. Accuracy is the same as alox etc., but cleaning is still ~3 patches. joe b.

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pat i. posted this 10 December 2012

joeb33050 wrote: If I try to size and lube in 1 step, the forward band doesn't size OR too many grooves lube.

If you're using Lyman H&I dies plug up the top holes with shot, I forget what size shot I used but someone should chime in, and you can size and lube in one operation sizing all the bands and filling just the grooves you want. RCBS dies should be good to go as is.

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joeb33050 posted this 10 December 2012

pat i. wrote: joeb33050 wrote: If I try to size and lube in 1 step, the forward band doesn't size OR too many grooves lube.

If you're using Lyman H&I dies plug up the top holes with shot, I forget what size shot I used but someone should chime in, and you can size and lube in one operation sizing all the bands and filling just the grooves you want. RCBS dies should be good to go as is.

Done this in the past with .3095” Lyman die, didn't do the job for me and I had a bad time getting the shot out of the holes. Used #6 shot, still have plenty, which also works fine in loading die lock screw holes keeping screws from mashing threads. Maybe try a smaller shot/easier to get out of die holes? Maybe I'll give it another try. Thanks; joe b.

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Wayne S posted this 10 December 2012

To help with hand seating of GC's I use a tool that puts a bevel / \ on the GC shank,depending on the alloy & mold most will snap on, thoses that offer more resistance than my hands can apply, I use a Lee hand help press and a GC seating tool. I start by sizing & lubing in my 450 with the largest H&I die that will lube the bullet w/o lube squirting past the bullet, when they come out of the H&I die the lube is a little “tacky” so I put them on a pan with some Motor Mica, then they are stored till I decide which weapon they are to be used in and then pushed through a Lee push through die. .311 for an M1A, .310 for most and .309 for one tight chamber.

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Duane Mellenbruch posted this 10 December 2012

joeb33050 wrote:  plug up the top holes with shot, 

Done this in the past with .3095” Lyman die, didn't do the job for me and I had a bad time getting the shot out of the holes. Used #6 shot, still have plenty, which also works fine in loading die lock screw holes keeping screws from mashing threads. Maybe try a smaller shot/easier to get out of die holes? Use bigger shot, to form a nail head sort of plug.  Then you have an edge of the plug to pry on with a sharp edged tool and pop out of the hole.  Smaller and the lube will just push it down against the bullet or push out rod in the die and chew up the shot. 

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pat i. posted this 10 December 2012

Duane Mellenbruch wrote: joeb33050 wrote:  plug up the top holes with shot, 

Done this in the past with .3095” Lyman die, didn't do the job for me and I had a bad time getting the shot out of the holes. Used #6 shot, still have plenty, which also works fine in loading die lock screw holes keeping screws from mashing threads. Maybe try a smaller shot/easier to get out of die holes?  Then you have an edge of the plug to pry on with a sharp edged tool and pop out of the hole.

Or you just take the rod out and push the plug into and out of the die with a small punch.

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CB posted this 10 December 2012

pat i. wrote: joeb33050 wrote: If I try to size and lube in 1 step, the forward band doesn't size OR too many grooves lube.

If you're using Lyman H&I dies plug up the top holes with shot, I forget what size shot I used but someone should chime in, and you can size and lube in one operation sizing all the bands and filling just the grooves you want. RCBS dies should be good to go as is. I use 7 1/2 shot for mine, same size I use for my star sizers.

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joeb33050 posted this 14 December 2012

After about 3 hours of trying, I cannot get the 450 to size to .312” all the way along the bullet, AND lube only the bottom grease groove. The bullet was marked at the height where all bands sized to .312".

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joeb33050 posted this 14 December 2012

Removed H&I dies, put #6 shot, -must be tapped in- in the top lube holes. Tried, either nosizum right or grease in top groove. Put shot in 2nd holes down, nosizum/grease in top groove again. Deja Vu has returned, I remember why shotinthedieholes didn't work. What am I missing? joe b.

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pat i. posted this 14 December 2012

Shot in the lube holes works fine. Use #2 or 4 shot and follow Duane's directions in post #9.

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CB posted this 15 December 2012

Plug all of the holes except the bottom row of holes like Duane says. Do not over pressure the lube chamber, too much and the stuff goes everywhere. If that dont work, buy a star...

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Duane Mellenbruch posted this 15 December 2012

joeb33050 wrote: After about 3 hours of trying, I cannot get the 450 to size to .312” all the way along the bullet, AND lube only the bottom grease groove. The bullet was marked at the height where all bands sized to .312".

Joe, look really close at the die in the photo.   Does that read 30X as if the die has been lapped out?  Perhaps someone at some time in the life of the die made some mods to it?

Now then as to the shot.  The Star has a two diameter hole the thru hole is smaller than the outside part of the hole and this is so a shot can be dropped in and the smaller part of the hole will stop the shot from passing into the die.  Lyman, RCBS and perhaps the Saeco dies have a straight hole drilled through.  The way to plug them is to use an oversized shot and partly flatten the high part after the shot has been placed over the hole.  It has to be flat enough to clear the sides of the sizer casting.  But if you leave it a little proud instead of hammering it flat and into the hole, the excess will keep the shot from passing through the hole.  And it makes it a lot easier to catch the edge with a knife blade and pop the plug out of the hole.  If you don't like that, cut up some thin shim stock and form it to the size of the die and epoxy  small discs of stock to the outside of the die, like a tire patch.  Remember to keep it thin so it will pass into the the casting and be held in place with the retaining nut. 

Duane

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joeb33050 posted this 15 December 2012

The bullet shown, in the die, is sized .312” all its length. Pushing it down further does no more sizing. The H&I die is marked .312, sizes .3120” if I size-turn bullet 90 degrees, size. I've owned it for years, never modified. The second picture shows the bullet, marked-scratched with a knife blade-next to the die. I put shot in both top holes, no workee. Put shot in next 2 holes, 2 top holes on each side, no workee. The shot, #6 I was told, measures .108"-.111” for 10 measurements. This shot is large enough that it has to be tapped into the holes in the die. Shot sizes: #2 .150", #4 .130", 36 .110", #7 1/2 .095" I'll try shot in the top 3 holes each side as Jeff suggests.

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joeb33050 posted this 15 December 2012

No, that didn't work. Shot in the top 3 of 4 holes on each side of the die. I can size the bullet, all bands, to .312". I can lube only the bottom groove. I can't do both in one pass. When the bullet goes deep enough to size all bands, the top groove gets some lube. The bullet will go all the way to the bottom, but gets lube in top groove. Why is lube coming-oozing out of the bottom of the 450, where it sits on the bench? t never did this before. Thanks; joe b.

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joeb33050 posted this 15 December 2012

I'm thinking that the lube goes between the ID of the die and the OD of the plunger-I? die?, from any open hole in the die, and gets in the top groove. Lube wouldn't have to travel far, ~.1"? joe b.

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CB posted this 15 December 2012

It is possible for the plunger dia and the die dia may be a bit loose. There is a fellow here on this forum named Lathesmith, he may be able to make a custom plunger for your die. As for lube oozing out the bottom, that is common for 450's, I made a gasket out of some leftover rubber sheeting about 1/8” thick that solved that issue. The problems you are having is the main reason I went to a star sizer.

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pat i. posted this 15 December 2012

You weren't doing any custom plunger swapping between dies were you? Check the plunger diameter with a mic. I checked a couple of my dies and the plunger diameter was about a thousand and a half under the die diameter.

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