30/40 Krag

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  • Last Post 02 December 2012
frnkeore posted this 17 February 2012

I did a search for 30/40 Krag and didn't come up with anything useful.

I'm going to start shooting the iron sight Military matches, here in Oregon. My rifle of choise is my 1898 Krag that been sporterized and the barrel cut to 26” with a .310 groove. It has a Redfield sight and the military front post.

My first question is can I replace the front with a aperture sight like a 17A?

My only load development was with 4759 and the going from 18.5 to 24 gr, the best 5 shot group was the 18.5 load with a group at 1.5 @ 100 with a NEI simi copy (sharper point) of the 311299.

I've only shot the rifle one time and that was only one group so, I know VERY little about it.

Does anyone have any match loads that they could tell me about?

Are there any bedding issues that I should know about?

Any suggestion regarding reworking the trigger?

Thank you for any help,

 

Frank

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.22-10-45 posted this 17 February 2012

Hello, frnkeore. I have an 1898 Krag rifle I fire-lapped. Bore is .310” I have only tried two cast bullets in this rifle..both are cast from old Ideal moulds..but Lyman made them as well..the .311467 @ 177grs. This is a tapered bullet..first few bands are bore dia., tapering up to over groove dia. The other is the so called “squib” 311413 @169grs.   They were cast of fairly soft range scrap & tin..I pan-lubed with soft home-made beeswax based lube.  These were shot with 19.0gr. IMR4227. Back when I could see..LOL, I could maintain a narrow white line under target (6:00 hold), using the little appature in the standing rear sight..many times I shot 1” or better groups at 100yds. with either of these bullets. Man I wish I had peepers like that again!

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GWarden posted this 01 March 2012

Frank In my Krag I've found that best bullet in my rifle is the 311284. Make sure you check your throat size. I had been using bullets .310, and making a cast of the chamber I went to .311 sizing, and reduced my group size. Using NRA lube, WLR primers, 18.0 gr of IMR4227. I had been using 4759, but after trying 4227, groups were smaller. Velocity of the 4227 in my Krag is 1495fps. When the nut behind the rifle is doing his part, will shoot 1” groups consistently. Yes, a globe sight will definitely help. Bob

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frnkeore posted this 01 March 2012

Thank you, both.

I will give those two loads a try.

How about the barrel band? Do you do anything about that?

Frank

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madsenshooter posted this 25 August 2012

frnkeore, there were 100 Krag rifles made with 26” barrels. Known as the Board of Ordnance and Fortification rifles. Could be you have one of those?  Check that out before messing with that front sight. Got any pics of your rifle?

The squib bullet makes a good load at around 1450fps. I generally get there with 11-12gr of Blue Dot, VV10B101 or something else that burns about that speed. Which reminds me, Jeff Bartlett has some old AL8, which is about that speed.

You can try a faster load with the squib, but don't think you'll have much success. Don't know what it is about that bullet, but trying to get accuracy at a higher speed is a frustrating waste of effort. I use Belding and Mull's version, their 311169.

My really good Krag load is the 185gr Eagan MX2-30H at 2150fps. 38gr of 4350 or something in that burn rate will get you there, if you should find one of the molds. Eagan's MX3-30-AR another 169, likes 2000fps and I usually use 22gr of Blue Dot to get there.  The 30AR is tapered, not much in the case by the time I get out to the rifling.  The  Lee bullets for the 7.62x39 also work well in the Krag.  Pictured is a 12 or 13 sht group I shot using the Eagan 30 AR bullet in my 1892/96 rifle which I had mounted a 7x LER on.  Shot using the bannister of my porch as a rest, at about 80yd.  Called the high one, bottom, barely visible one, is a different group.

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frnkeore posted this 27 August 2012

I'm not a Krag collector but, I like them very much. I've only had one other, a highly modified (read Bubba) and this one. I'm waffling on buying a fairly well done sportized and flat mag cover one.

I hadn't ever heard of the Board of Ordnance and Fortification rifles but, I doubt that mine is one. I had thought that it was done many years ago by some company like Bannerman. It is a well done factory type conversion.

Here are the pictures, including the filled rod channel.

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madsenshooter posted this 27 August 2012

Thanks. From what I see, you're right, it's a cutdown. Looks like they cut the sight off another barrel then dovetailed it into yours.

Had a little fun with mine yesterday, making little rocks out of big ones in an old mine area. I used my Belding and Mull 311169 at around 1450fps. A friend and I were shooting golf balls at 100yds one day and hitting them pretty regular with the load.

Accurate mold's copy of the Eagan MX4-30-ARD (Accurate's 31-230-E) makes a good bullet for them. Mine come out at 220gr, because of a high tin alloy I use. But they're in the throat when seated to an OAL of 3.07", they'll work in the magazine, and the base is right at the neck shoulder junction.

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GBertolet posted this 27 August 2012

On my 1899 Krag carbine I replaced the trigger return spring with one of equal length but less strength. I guess you could cut down the original also. It noticably reduced the trigger pull. It's maybe 5 lbs now. Down from 7 or 8lbs. It's all an estimate, as my trigger scale does not go that high. I like the Lyman 311284 and 311291 bullets, sized at .311 with 18gr 4759. When my eyes were better I could get sub 2” groups at 100yds. I hear some shooters like 18gr of 2400, as it is supposedly less position sensitive in cases. I may try that load next.

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JeffinNZ posted this 28 August 2012

Do you have any 2400 powder? My .303 Brit sings with 14gr of 2400 under a similar bullet to yours.

Cheers from New Zealand

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frnkeore posted this 28 August 2012

Thanks again for the info.

I'm a collector of the Squib molds. I have a Goerge Hensley (wide ogive band .312), B&M (narrow ogive band .313), Lyman/Ideals in ES (.308), S (.309), U (.309), one regualar that casts .311 and 4 others that cast the normal .313-4.

Frank

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madsenshooter posted this 28 August 2012

I had one of the Hensley Squibs. Sold it on ebay not long ago, it was an early one, had the pre-1940 extra band on the front, which didn't help any at all. Thought I could get more velocity with accuracy out of it, but no go. If anything it got wilder than the B&M.

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Buzzard Bill posted this 28 August 2012

I shoot 15.5 gr. of 2400 in mine with a rcbs 30-180 FN sized at .310, great groups at 100yds. Have not shot at a longer distance.

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Notlwonk posted this 28 August 2012

My first time out was with Lyman 311467. Cast in linotype and sized .311 at the base. I only sized/lubed  the lower 2 grooves and ended up with the mid bands at .313. 

  18 grs. 4759 gave a 6 shot 1.6” group with 5 going in at 1.1". Shot at 100 yds with the 1899 (?) rear sight. Subsequent sessions at the range confirm that this was not a fluke.  The Lee 180 RN does almost as well.

The bore is .310 dia. in this M1898.

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frnkeore posted this 28 August 2012

madsenshooter wrote: I had one of the Hensley Squibs. Sold it on ebay not long ago, it was an early one, had the pre-1940 extra band on the front, which didn't help any at all. Thought I could get more velocity with accuracy out of it, but no go. If anything it got wilder than the B&M.

I was supprised that you had poor results from that bullet. I had read that the very reason that GH but the band on it was because the 30/40 has a long throat and that band was to ensure a better fit with the shorter cast bullet.

I don't know whether B&M or GH was the first to put that band on the ogive but, B&M's is about 1/2 the width of the GH.

I still haven't done any load developement other than the 4759 that I spoke of in my OP. I have to drive 160 mi's to compete and I've been working hard on differant bullets in my ASSRA/ISSA single shots. I did ream the GC off the U mold that I have to try in my 32/35 (.308 groove) and shot it BSed w/o success. In 23/1 it had .308 bands and I reamed a .310 x .100 lg PB band on it.

I have had great success with my 8.15x46R and a .313 Lymam Squib with a .316 base band, shot BSed, a .630 5 shot group @ 100 so, I was supprised at the poor results in my 32/35.

Frank

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madsenshooter posted this 28 August 2012

For those who might be wondering what we're talking about, the B&M 311169 on the left, the early Hensley version of the Squib opposite.  The B&M outshot the Hensley on one trial, the only trial, and all things were not equal as I used a different alloy for each.  The Hensley was lighter and faster than the B&M.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 29 August 2012

On my 1899 Krag carbine I replaced the trigger return spring with one of equal length but less strength. I guess you could cut down the original also

cutting a spring shorter makes the spring RATE higher...the spring gets stiffer.

a smaller diameter wire....  or go to stainless steel ...it has about 0.66 the rate of regular spring wire of the same diameter.

just some trivia....ken

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frnkeore posted this 29 August 2012

That's very true but, The actual amount of pressure depends on how much compression that the longer spring had to begin with. So, you can reduce the amount of pressure by shortening with very little starting compression. that's why you can get away with it in some applications. 

Frank

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madsenshooter posted this 17 October 2012

Hey Frank, here's another spitzer type bullet, NOE's version of the 311365.  Shoots good into the rifling, and folks on castboolits say it shoots 4-5min flatter than the 311299.  Loooong bearing surface, 4198 got overpressure before I got to the velocity I wanted, and well below max charges for a 180gr bullet.  If they work near as good seated out to max magazine length, they'll be my substitute for the high priced jacketed match bullets I used in highpower competition.  As you can see, slow burners can drop the pressure down into the accuracy level.  Good clean burn fired with a magnum primer.  Guessing velocity out of a 30” barrel to be 2000-2100fps.

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Chargar posted this 02 December 2012

I have been shooting cast bullet in Krags since about 1961 and have four of the rifles now. Here is what I have learned in a nutshell.

  1. First the bad news....Barrel groove diamter is all over the place from .308 to .312 with .310 being the most common.

  2. Now the good news...Barrel groove diameter really doesn't matter that much as the throats are quite large, regardless of the groove diameter.

  3. I use .314 bullet in them all and get good accuracy providing everything else is right.

  4. If a .314 bullet give you chambering issues, turn the case necks until they don't.

Das all....

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