New Gun For Hunters Class

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  • Last Post 27 January 2012
mrbill2 posted this 26 January 2012

I have been thinking about a new gun, Ruger #1, to shoot in the Hunters Class. Can't deside weather it should be 30/30 or 308. Wouldn't use it for anything but punching holes with cast. Thought I'd see what others might choose ?

Thanks

mrbill2

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onondaga posted this 26 January 2012

The 30-30 would have a larger selection of powders that can be loaded to high density loads and have reasonable pressures for cast bullets. The long neck of the 30-30 is also the reason it is so at home with cast bullets. Of course it was designed for cast bullets. The .308 will have gas checks in past the neck bottom in a lot of loads and also have significant airspace in the case yielding ignition inconsistency  and velocity spread.

I like small capacity cases for cast end even got my Remington Spartan single shot in 7.62X39mm  to achieve sub MOA with cast and 100% loading density with H4895 and AA2230. The Spartan trigger was a horrid 10 pounds and required a major re-work and 2 spring modifications but is now 2.3 lbs.

Either the 30-30 or the .308 really shoot well with the RCBS or Lyman silhouette bullets and H4895 but the 30-30 does it near or at 100% density loads and has more accuracy potential due to the long neck seating advantage.

Gary

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6pt-sika posted this 26 January 2012

Lets see the 30-30 and 308 are only offered in the 1A I believe so if thats the configuration you want I'd opt for another !

They also chamber the 1A in 6.5 Creedmoor , think thats the way I'd go .>

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 26 January 2012

for fun shooting, the ruger1 is a great choice.....and for cast bullets, the 30-30 case is great.   a rimmed case is good in cast shooting.

i am not a ruger historian, so wondering if 30-30 is available in no1. ... only in #3   ?? 

if you want to try to win...... the ruger 3 may not be the easiest path to a gold medal..... the ruger single shots are composed of four separate parts that tend to restablish their relationships between sequential shots. plus the r3 is a little on the light side which makes recoil movement important....oh yeah, the r3 triggers really need attention from a ruger doctor. (g) ..    i think i would try to locate an r1 in 32-40....  the older triggers respond ok to a little attention. besides, the early r1 usually had better wood (g).

while i applying salt, i might mention that the factory * chambering  ** for the 30-30 is not optimum for assembled ammo...check out ed harris' several fine comments on that....

it would be interesting to play with the A.Neidner approach to this chamber...long bore rider bullet with a throat sized base;;;    or maybe using a separate breech seater a/la   the old schuetzen...except hunter class would not allow that...i think.

competition can be very rewarding if winning something is not too important...imho, the spice is the people you meet, the odd ideas that come up,  and maybe the most important of all....on the road..finding the good eating places...(g).

i suggest choosing a rifle that you would enjoy shooting, enter lots of matches, and keep records,  and compete against yourself... for myself, top competition is just practice to get better at busting popcans in my back yard (g)

just some thoughts...ken

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CB posted this 26 January 2012

I had good luck all through the 1980's with a Ruger #1B in 223 in the old 9 pound limit production class which was somewhat similar to the new hunting rifle class. I beat a lot of thirty caliber shooters who all used bolt guns but never convinced a one that either a #1 or a 22 could shoot cast bullets.

1s can be tricky but some of them will shoot- sometimes even without tweaking.

As far as a choice between 30-30 and 308 - look at the mach results. 308s dominate. Even in the old days when the 788 was THE rifle for the old production class and available in both calibers the 308 dominated. The 1994 throat of the 30-30 may be the reason - see Ed Harris's stuff as suggested by Ken. Of course changing the throat isn't allowed by hunter rifle rules. That was the kind of stuff we were trying to get away from in inventing the class.

On the other hand Russ Arnold has had pretty good luck shooting in production class with a Browning 1885 in 30-30 in a few nationals.

I agree completely with Ken about the right attitude to take into competition. You can have fun or make yourself miserable depending on your attitude. If you want to be miserable you can just change the oil and filter on many modern cars and save twenty bucks at the same time.

John

John

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6pt-sika posted this 26 January 2012

Ken Campbell, Iowa wrote: i am not a ruger historian, so wondering if 30-30 is available in no1. ... only in #3   ?? 

 

Yes Ruger made the 1A in 30-30 atleast last year !

I don't know if it's in their catalog this year . But I think there are still a few listed on Gunbroker .

They never made it in the #3 that I'm aware of .

They did make the #3 in 375 WIN that would be kinda cool . They also made the #1S I believe in 38-55 a few years back which I think would also be an excellent candidate !

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6pt-sika posted this 26 January 2012

Ken Campbell, Iowa wrote: competition can be very rewarding if winning something is not too important...imho, the spice is the people you meet, the odd ideas that come up,  and maybe the most important of all....on the road..finding the good eating places...(g).

While I don't disagree with what you say , I didn't follow that when I shot skeet and trap competitively !

Back then when you walked out on the field you had to feel like you were the one to beat !

Now with a rifle competition I'm not as well versed . But I expect I'd be more inclined to follow what you say .

 

I might add we always ate and drank well when I shoot flying targets ;)

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mrbill2 posted this 27 January 2012

OK fellows, thanks for all the input. Seen a 30-30 Ruger at a gunshow and got me to thinking. May or may not ever buy one but I know more about them today than yesterday and that's a +. Thanks.

mrbill2

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.22-10-45 posted this 27 January 2012

Hello, everyone. When I was active in the Michigan Schuetzen society matches, Wayne Swartz always told the new guys who were undecided on jumping into the game..to start out with a Ruger No.1 single-shot chambered in .30-30.
It was an accurate ctg. for match shooting..and if they found they didn't care for competition..they still had a nice deer rifle.

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linoww posted this 27 January 2012

i would bet the Ruger factory 308 chamber/throat way better than the factory 30-30 dim's for cast bullets.My 788's in 308 generally outshot my 788 30-30's even when i throated the 30-30's

If you look at how well the Savage and Remington 700's in 308 shoot cast i seriously doubt if they were in 30-30 if thay would trim much off group size. Regardless of the supposed smaller capacity advantage.All of the arguments of inconsistent ignition due to to much capacity in the 308 is not valid .I have shot many loads that have SD's in single digits to low teens in the 308 with 20g of powder and no filler!

I guess i agree with John A. pretty much.

In a custom rifle and chamber the 30-30 should be better.But if building a custom fixed case gun go 30BR and get the better brass. if you want to have fun a 30-30 is sure a fun one i will agree.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 27 January 2012

a few years ago when i was considering mj benchrest, one of the top shooters/smiths devoted much effort trying to get a 30-30 case to be a winner.  he eventually gave up. mj benchrest is a much higher bar than our semi-liquid casterballs, so yes i bet a full boogie match rifle would be 99.9 % good enough to win with cast.

after all, remember the 219 wasp only a few years back.....

for me one of the attractions of the 30-30 is the rim......  ideally a rim case should be resistant to headspace changing with plinker loads.    one bad thing would be varying rim thickness on the cheap cases... should we trim the rims and then set headspace to the thinner rims ? 

ken

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Lefty posted this 27 January 2012

I have a falling block 30-30 manufactured by EA Brown. I thought it would be a fun cast bullet rifle. The problem is that it has a fairly tight throat - standard 30-30? The falling block action does not allow me to cam a loaded round into place so I have been limited on both bullet diameter and OAL. I don't know if the Ruger action and chamber would have the same issues or not. I am going to throat this EA Brown but throating does eliminate a rifle from Hunter Class competition.

Jim

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tturner53 posted this 27 January 2012

The H&R 30-30s have a good reputation for accuracy. AND, I believe they've introduced a bunch more accessory barrels, some very interesting ones. The total cost of having one fitted to your gun is about $160 and doesn't take that long, my last one was about 6 wks IIRC. Rumor has it they will even do a free trigger job when you send in a frame for a new barrel. I have a frame that is fitted for .22 Hornet, .223(two barrels), .243, .308, .444, and 45-70. Lotta cheap fun. I think I'll get a .35 Whelen next summer.

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