300 BKC for cast bullets.

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  • Last Post 21 December 2013
scottawebb posted this 03 August 2011

This round is really got me interested. Not for the black rifle applications, but for a utility gun shooting cast. I've had 357, 7.62 x 39 and 32-20 rifles, and currently have a 32 mag marlin, but I think the 300 BLK would cover all those bases. Bolt or pump. Chambered in the 7615 and you would have all the capacity and rapid fire I would need, or hybridize the Ruger Gunsite scout with a smaller 77 357 and I would be satisfied. A peep with a rail for optics. I think I might need the optics past a hundred yards. Older eyes, blah, blah.

Fast twist barrel shooting any thing from a 90 gr. hornady swc all the way past 220 grains at subsonic and stabilized. Virtually any weight of 30 caliber bullet would work. In the 125 to 170 grainers, it overlaps the 7.62 x 39 and the 30-30 class (Lower end on the 30-30) and brass is available and cheap compared to say 6.8 spc or a grendel. Lots of manufacturers are making components but it is mostly directed towards the black guns. Have seen some Remington model 7 builds posted. Model 7, model 700 and Savage barrels are available.

And it uses the 223 bolt head and mags. Wouldn't mind seeing it in a mini 14, but bolts or a pump would be my first choices.

What do all y'all think?

Essay Webb

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tturner53 posted this 03 August 2011

It is a .223 Rem. necked up to .30, right? If so it ought to be a good cb round, small case capacity and plenty of cheap brass to reform. How's the neck length? One of these days I'm going to build a gun, wildcat probably. Everybody should do it at least once.

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scottawebb posted this 04 August 2011

The 300 BLK can be formed from 223 but it is a necked up 221 Fireball. Shorter case but same OAL as the 223 when loaded. The Wikipedia link below is pretty comprehensive considering the source but doesn't give the neck length, although it has a good picture of the 300 BLK along with the 5.56 and 7.62 x 39. Also of interest is the listing of manufacturers that make guns, parts, ammo , components etc. AAC, the developer of this cartridge (which is in effect a standardized and now SAAMI specced. 300 Whisper) is part of the Freedom Group, the company that owns Remington, Marlin and a jillion other firearms related companies. Remington already produces 3 or 4 loads and brass, which is available through Midway, and the new brass at least is reasonably priced.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300AACBlackout(7.62×35mm)

If Ruger made a frontier with the sights from the Scout rifle it would be close to ideal. Detachable mags should probably be considered. I had a CZ 527, but good luck finding aftermarket sights etc. Great platform, but you have to have adjustable sights or easy optics capabilities for a cartridge with so widely varying loads, and the flexibility isn't there with the CZ.

Essay W.

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CB posted this 04 August 2011

I'm still a bit surprised the .222 case wasn't used to allow a skosh more powder in the boiler room. Still, it looks good to me.

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scottawebb posted this 04 August 2011

I think the use of the heaviest bullets for suppressed fire determined the case length. Wilson makes a 7.62 x 40 that has a bit more room for powder, but they don't seem to utilize the 220 - 250gr. projectiles that the 300 BLK does. The AAC people are primarily known for making suppressors. The metric designation of the 300 BLK is 7.62 x 35.

AAC is also working on a Handy Rifle with a 16” threaded barrel and iron sights. Could be a easy and affordable way to try out the cartridge. Do some cast load development while hoping for a suitable bolt or pump gun.

Essay W.

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Wayne S posted this 05 August 2011

 Fior thoses that aren't aware http://http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=102895>http://http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=102895.

By the time I finish with some 223 J testing, this mold and the new bbl chambered in 300/221, for my Savage 110 should be here for “fun & games”

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JSH posted this 06 August 2011

223 or 222mag/204, how do you figure it is able to out do a 30-30 case? If you want to compare pressures, you need to make them equal to be fair. The 30-30 case will stand way more than what folks have been led to believe. As to a building platform, that is where the 30-30 falls off in order to get a repeater that will feed not a lot of bolt guns out there that are good platforms to fool with. I have played with a the 30x223 and the 30x221. Both using a stndard load and sub sonic. Neither one performed to what I expected with various bullet weights. Also on the above mentioned, I dislike the small amount of shoulder. You end up with a small version of the 35 remington which in turn can be an issue with case size and chamber size until fireformed. Not knocking the 35Rem as I have a couple of them a fine round imho, but it could sure use some improvements. When one builds a gun especially in a wild cat it is gonna cost ya. To worry about brass prices.........? The one thing on brass is availability. For what you seek I would still suggest the 6.8 necked to the 30 Rem, or the 7.62x39, necked to 30. The 7.62x39 necked to 30 and AI'd is a dandy. jeff

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scottawebb posted this 06 August 2011

JSH-When I said the 300 BLK was in the 30-30 class, (on the low end), I only meant that it can duplicate older velocities for a 160 gr. bullet. Same point has been made about the 357 in a rifle. They are overlapping but in no way equal. The 10 mm can overlap my 41 mag, but no way is it equal. A 308 doesn't fully equal a 30-06 either. I get that. What I want is versatility and utility from a production cartridge. For now I can't consider a wild cat. I think about them lots, but can't go there currently. I shoot lead. We butcher farm animals and shoot at various predators. I keep a gun by the back door and I shoot standing up and with a peep sight. I had 32-20s and have 32 mags in handguns and rifle. I had the 7.62 x 39 rifle because it was in between the 32-20 and 30-30. I haven't shot a deer in decades and don't shoot people at all so far but you never know what tomorrow will bring.

This cartridge will be available in a Handy Rifle soon and I hope for a non-auto repeater will be coming. AAC will make a model 7, but that isn't quite what I want. Fun. Versatile. Affordable. Available. 30 cal. bore size. The do-all idea.

Factory brass for around $25/100 and even Lee makes dies. It could happen

Essay W.

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JSH posted this 06 August 2011

;)

I have also looked around for a do all .308 or .312.

Some one made a 32-20 in a bolt repeater a long time back, Stevens i think. It had a tube magazine. I was a high school kid with a couple of nickles to rub together and my dad talked me out of it. I sure wish I had it now.

Limiting factors on a modern made 32-20aka 30-20 is OAL and feeding. I have a TC barrel and a BF falling block pistol in 30-20. I have shot everything from 110's through 220's in the TC. I just picked up another BF in 30-20, also a pistol. The early frame I have may be converted to a 30-20 in a rifle platform before it is over though.

Keep us all up dated as I know there is a fairly large following of small case 30 folks around here:cool:

jeff 

 

It has been a long time since in Washington. I was born in Arlington and still have a few relation's out there. Saw Mt Vernon and it just clicked in my head.:D

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Wayne S posted this 06 August 2011

scottawebb 

Factory brass for around $25/100 and even Lee makes dies. It could happen

Essay W.

FACTORY BRASS ??? Who is selling it ??

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scottawebb posted this 06 August 2011

Midway had it:

Advanced Armament Co (AAC) Brass 300 AAC Blackout (7.62x35mm) Box of 100 Product #: 919812 Status: Out of Stock, Backorder OK $24.99

Essay W

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Wayne S posted this 07 August 2011

THANK YOU:dude:

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scottawebb posted this 07 August 2011

Saw this site for reformed 300 AAC on another forum. Claims to be the cheapest brass available @ $16/100.

http://www.silencertalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=74268

Tons of stuff available for this round but heavily leaning towards the black gun applications for which it was developed. You can buy Remington bolt gun barrels and aftermarket Savage barrels are out there too. AAC is working on a Handy Rifle in 300 AAC with a 16” barrel, threaded with protecter installed. Looks good in the pictures and it will sell for less than a model 7 barrel. Pretty cool, me thinks.

Essay W.

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scottawebb posted this 07 August 2011

Just found a new post with good photos of the Handy Rifle

http://www.go2gbo.coms/index.php/topic,224475.msg1099357118.html#msg1099357118

My understanding is stock and sight options have NOT be finalized, what you see may not be what you get. They will be drilled and tapped in any case. Gun is a prototype, function and proof tested, hopefully on the way to production.

On a different note, saw a post in passing that said 357 max brass can be formed in the 300 BLK dies to make a rimmed version. Speaks to the relative case capacities at least.

Essay W.

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Wayne S posted this 07 August 2011

scottawebb wrote: JuOn a different note, saw a post in passing that said 357 max brass can be formed in the 300 BLK dies to make a rimmed version. Speaks to the relative case capacities at least.

Essay W.

 There are 3 versions, 30 x 357 Max, aka 30 Super mag, never reall caught on due to it's very short  neck, then the 30 X 357 Mag, and the 30 x 38 Spl. AKA 30 Reeve.

Filled with AA # 9 to the base of the neck the case capasity is + 1 gn. for the 300/221 and -1 gn. for the 32-20 AKA 30-20

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scottawebb posted this 07 August 2011

My dream guns would be on actions sized for the 223, like a mini Mauser, or a 357 lever or bolt. The Ruger 77 357 would be good as a parent. BUT, oal on the Ruger might limit the weights one could use. I am hung up on having size appropriate actions for cartridges. A modernized 32-20 with a fast twist is all I would want, assuming a deer, hog, bad guy-rustler load was possible. If my heavy loads stayed under 1800-2000fps, flat nose and-or lead wouldn't be bad things.

On the other hand, 300 BLK factory fodder in Remington 7615 would be pretty good too. Or a Ruger Frontier set up with the same sights as the Scout and some kind of detachable magazine. But my crystal ball (eight ball?) says: “Answer unclear. Check back much, much, later."

I don't see any major player addressing the 32-20 in modern form. And Ruger may never embrace the 300 BLK cartridge unless it becomes an overwhelming popular favorite first.

Essay W.

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JSH posted this 19 August 2011

I don't see any major player addressing the 32-20 in modern form.

And I doubt you will. To many old soft guns out there for this round to take it to even a +P load let alone a +P+ load. Thus the 32 mag and the 327.

:) howdy Wayne. The 30x357 has been around for quite a while, thought the 30x221 makes it look like a new round, minus the rim of course. I had nothing but “issues” with the 30x221 in the sub sonic mode, erratic to say the least. Could have been the barrel I suppose? The Reese always looked kind of anemic to me. I had a hard enough time with the 30x221 and the 30-20 with heavies, anything over 140ish. I do believe there was a cartridge around that was pretty much the same as the Reese, BP era stuff or the transformation to smokeless.

LOL, everytime I think I have dreamed up somthing new, it has already been done give or take a bit of neck length, case length or shoulder angle.

 

jeff

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skeet1 posted this 22 March 2012

I guess I'm confused. What is the difference between the .300 Blackout and the .300 Whisper?

Ken

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Tom Acheson posted this 22 March 2012

FWIW

The 30/223 , while not the same round as the Whisper (based on a 221 Fireball) has been with us a long time. It has been known as the .30x223 (Dave Ingrahm using custom Contender barrels in the late 60's) 30tcu (Tom Beal IHMSA 1975), 30 Jiras (Terry Jiras 1979 IHMSA), 30 Apache (Gun Digest 1986, Joe Apache NRA Highpower Rifles out to 500-meters), 30 Silhouette, etc.

I have a single shot break-open 10 1/2” barreled silhouette pistol made by RPM, their XL model, chambered in 30 Silhouette. It DOES like CB's.

Tom

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Duane Trusty posted this 22 March 2012

Skeet1

The big difference between the 300 Blackout and the 300 Whisper is the Blackout normally has a thicker neck. It is most often safe to make Blackout cases from 223 brass, where quite often you will need to turn formed 223 brass in the neck to fit a Whisper chamber. It is advised to neck up the 221 Fireball brass to make the Whisper.

Also Mr. Jones at SSK registered the Whisper name so that is why you see a lot of manufactures of barrels etc refer to it as the 30/221 Fireball. This precludes the need to pay any fees to SSK to use the Whisper name.

The other advantage and why I went with the Blackout it is supported by SAAMI as well as Remington.

I do shoot 300 Whisper (Corbon)in my Savage 110 that has a McGowen barrel in 300 Blackout.

Duane Trusty

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Paultheshooter posted this 15 May 2012

Interesting topic to say the least. I found the 300w, 30/221 a good rnd. I used 221 fireball cases for the hotter jacketed loads and 223 cases formed for the cast, no inside neck reaming needed. I was pushing 165grn gc projie pretty hard with out a problem. My 150grn jsp loads were good enough to take rams at 200m with no refusals. All shot through a TC. Even plinked out to 500m with good accuracy. Sure annoyed the ants in the mound everytime. Sorry for the ramble good rnd and and one day will have one in a rifle. That and one in 7.62x39 with a .308 bore 1:8 twist

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