Any one got the new Lyman "Cast Bullet Handbook: 4th Edition

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  • Last Post 29 May 2011
jh45gun posted this 12 May 2011

Just wondering how it is.

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Duane Mellenbruch posted this 12 May 2011

I like the new one, but also want to get a newer copy of the 3rd edition since some information was deleted.  Nice feature of the 4th edition is that it includes molds by other manufacturers.  Duane

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CB posted this 12 May 2011

I bought it hoping for a lot of new info and was disapointed. We got a life story about Mike Venturino and a lot of missinformation. Don't know if it is typeing problems but several of the loads I looked at are down right dangerous. Had hoped for more info on other than Lyman molds.

My $.02 worth but I am not a fan of venturino anyway

beekeeper

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99 Strajght posted this 12 May 2011

I like the new 4th edition. It gives more information than any other book out there. The pressures also help working up loads. Using it along with the LEE manual has been a real help. As far as Venturino goes, I like his writing. I may not always agree with him but he is better than most other writers and cast shooters out there. He seems to tell the truth wear as some others seem to not tell you what you want to know or streach the truth.

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billwnr posted this 12 May 2011

Three of you are shown as non-CBA members. You might not know that one of the articles was authored by fellow CBA member Tom Atcheson

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jh45gun posted this 12 May 2011

Cool I stopped by the local gun shop earlier and told them to order me a copy.

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raytear posted this 12 May 2011

A good friend bought a copy and reports the following: “I like the new book with the new feature of molds besides Lyman, article, new powders etc.  I was disappointed that there is not much new .35 rifle data."

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cityboy posted this 12 May 2011

Are the pressures reported in PSI or CUP units? How much pressure data are reported for the 30-06 and 30-30?

Jim

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JetMech posted this 12 May 2011

Pressure was recorded in PSI. There are 11 bullets tested in 30-06 and 3 in the 30-30.

5 of the 8 standard .35 calibers are represented.

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linoww posted this 13 May 2011

any cast bullet specific manual is nice to have.i thought they did a good job.i dont agree with every word,but for the most part it would send a beginner in good direction.Venturino's name will help them sell copies and i find him an honest guy.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Ed Harris posted this 13 May 2011

What I found most interesting is that there is alot of data for newly introduced powders, which I have no interest in trying, and there are some glaring omissions of tried and true recipes using powders such as Bullseye, Unique and #2400, which would have benefitted from modern revalidation by new firing test data with current components.  But they didn't do that  So people will continue to use Skeeter Skelton's and Elmer Keiths published loads for #2400 in the .357, .44 Special and .44 Magnum which are dangerous and exceed proof pressure!  They missed an opportunity to illustrate an important safety lesson.   

Minor peeve, they list NO loads using Bullseye powder in the .45 Colt. Zip, nada. But at least for the powders they do list, they compare pressures and velocties in both a rifle and a revolver, which I was interested in. But to know with certainty what my 6 grains of Bullseye does with a 255-gr. bullet in my Cowboy rifle I'll have to chronograph it myself.  I did find that it tracks fairly closely to the similar loads which Lyman featured for Trail Boss, TiteGroup, Red Dot, 700-X, 231 and all the other powders they want to sell, but which I am not using....

But overall I do like the book and I find myself referring to it alot, both for reference and for casual reading.  If you do not have a recently published loading manual (to me “recent"  means one which is less than ten years old) you can do LOTS worse than to buy this one. 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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RicinYakima posted this 13 May 2011

So, Ed, what do you think of this explanation:

The powder companies that sent in data, got it published, the ones that didn't got left out. Or did Lyman really shoot all of this data at their own facility?

Ric

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JetMech posted this 13 May 2011

RicinYakima wrote: So, Ed, what do you think of this explanation:

The powder companies that sent in data, got it published, the ones that didn't got left out. Or did Lyman really shoot all of this data at their own facility?

Ric

Ric, I called Lyman when the book was about 4 months overdue. The woman I talked to was very knowledgeable about the book and the progress on it. She told me that they delay in production was because they were behind in the actual loading, shooting and recording the data on the loads.

I agree with Ed on the powders used. Bullseye, Unique and 2400 are time proven performers in CB loads. I don't see them being discontinued any time soon. It sure would have been nice to see some hard data using the most common powders in loads at typical CB velocities.

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billglaze posted this 17 May 2011

I like the book; I've been using their manuals since 1951. (Before I learned to read!) I agree that there are omissions that could have been included; whether or not it would have meant increasing the cost as the pages were added, I don't know. But, in going back over their older manuals, (to check for “omissions” I “re-discovered” some informational articles I had overlooked. That made the checking/search worthwhile in itself. I also was disappointed that so much of the text was Venturino, but, still and all, he's interesting to read, even if I disagree with some of what he says. And, Dr. Block spent a large amount of ink getting to the point where he pretty much dismissed the idea of “oven baking” cast bullets. I found that item particularly interesting, inasmuch as I had very little success with cast bullets in rifles until I started following LBT's advice, including oven tempering. Even with the above caveats, there is a huge amount of useful information in it; I'd buy the manual again in a heartbeat if I lost my present copy for some reason. IMHO, it's well worth it.

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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Ed Harris posted this 17 May 2011

RicinYakima wrote: So, Ed, what do you think of this explanation:

The powder companies that sent in data, got it published, the ones that didn't got left out. Or did Lyman really shoot all of this data at their own facility? Ric I don't know if Lyman still has the resources to shoot all their own data.  During my NRA and Ruger days they did, but the results were not always what they seemed.  For instance, their so-called “Accuracy Loads” were selected only because they gave the most uniform pressures and velocities in a series tested.  No Lyman “Accuracy” load has ever been tested by them for grouping on paper in any fair comparision with other loads in that series.  They simply presumed that loads demonstrating the best ballistic uniformity would be the most accurate, which is an over simplification.

The late Col. E.H. Harrison and famed benchrest shooter Homer Culver both felt that shooting over a chronograph was a distraction which often led shooters down the primrose path in search of the holy grail.... Col. Harrison concluded that "accurate cast bullet loads are safe."  And Homer Culver followed this basic philosophy.  The only reason either would even care what the velocity or pressure was, would be to provide a benchmark for comparison, in hope of being able to find the “sweet spot” again when you bought another keg of the same brand and type of powder, but of a different lot, in hope of allowing for lot-to-lot variations, that you might find the combination that worked with the next one, without having to undergo a laborious program of charge establishment and testing all over again...

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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1kshooter posted this 17 May 2011

I am a FNG when it comes to cast and I would love to hear from you veterans what book or books would you recomend a newbe like myself to source out? Thanks so much for your time Jonathan

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RicinYakima posted this 17 May 2011

Handloading Ammunition, Mattern, 1926. Available on line from several libraries, the first and one of the best cast bullet reloading books.

FWIW, Ric

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raytear posted this 18 May 2011

I have been out of the country for a couple of weeks and the internet service was OK, but difficult so have been late replying to an earlier comment re: .35 caliber data.

Just for clarification, my friend's disappointment with the .35 caliber rifle data was not that there was a lack, but that the info in the current book seems simply to be carried over from Lyman's previous cb handbook with no data for newer powders added.

Given the general lack of enthusiasm for .35s among US rifle shooters I suppose that is readily understandable. However, one does live with hopes.

Good shooting! RT

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1kshooter posted this 18 May 2011

raytear wrote: I have been out of the country for a couple of weeks and the internet service was OK, but difficult so have been late replying to an earlier comment re: .35 caliber data.

Just for clarification, my friend's disappointment with the .35 caliber rifle data was not that there was a lack, but that the info in the current book seems simply to be carried over from Lyman's previous cb handbook with no data for newer powders added.

Given the general lack of enthusiasm for .35s among US rifle shooters I suppose that is readily understandable. However, one does live with hopes.

Good shooting! RTThanks so much...I will look into it pronto! I am having a blast with cast...I wish i would have started this game a lot sooner in life I could have saved a boat load of coin lol

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raytear posted this 18 May 2011

FWIW, my own favorite load for the .35 Whelen is NEI's 358-282. My wheelweight alloy drops a slug going about 295 grains. I size the water quenched slugs to .359 with a gas check and use Remington cases and Remington 9-1/2 regular large rifle primers. AA2230 in the amount of 33.5 grains gives a good  combination of power and accuracy. The bullet is long so I seat it with the upper lube groove covered and the upper driving band is just inside the case mouth. That seems to keep all the important parts within the case neck.  That is not a load that can be found in Lyman's new CB Handbook, but it has worked well for me --especially as a hunting load.  AA2230, having spherical grains, meters beautifully in a powder measure so loading big batches of these bruisers is short work.

If I weigh the bullets and use only those within .1 grain of each other, it will shoot 5 into about an inch or inch and a quarter at 100 meters. If I don't weigh slugs, the groups run to 2 to 2-1/2".

Good shooting! RT

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CB posted this 18 May 2011

1kshooter wrote: I am a FNG when it comes to cast and I would love to hear from you veterans what book or books would you recomend a newbe like myself to source out? Thanks so much for your time Jonathan The Lyman CB Manual is a good basic load book. The Lee Manual is also a good basic book with CB information. It doesn't get much more complicated than that; primer-powder-bullet-bang  :fire..................DanW

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