Relining an old 1894 Winchester

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  • Last Post 29 April 2011
Ed Harris posted this 28 March 2011

I acquired a much used 1894 Winchester .30-30 with shot out barrel.  Factory jacketed loads keyholed in the worn barrel and I couldn 't get any cast loads to shoot acceptably, so I sent it out to John Taylor for relining.  It is NOW a .35 cal. based on the .30-30 case, with 16 inch twist.  I wanted a cast bullet rifle in which I could use common .38 and .357 pistol bullets I already had, and using common .30-30 brass.  I also wanted something which could offer performance much like the .32-40 or .38-55 Winchester.

Thanks to Fred Sinclair I obtained a custom Redding die set which easily necks up .30-30 brass to .35 in one pass.  I can use either .32 Winchester Special or .30-30 brass as feedstock.  For now I am using the RCBS 35-200FN bullet with 16 grs. of #2400 for about 1500 fps, but I will explore plainbased bullets also.  Here is some eye candy.  Note the notches on the grip.  I'm presuming these represent deer rather than “bad guys."

    

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 28 March 2011

Anybody else fool with this caliber? 

Any favorite loads?  

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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tturner53 posted this 28 March 2011

I'm confused; “it's not a .35 cal based on the 30-30...". What am I missing? Also, sounds like a re-bore. How does the re-line work? I'm shooting similar bullets in my Marlin 1894c ..357, what a hoot. I have an LBT 200 gr. WFN/GC that shoots nice in the Marlin.

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Ed Harris posted this 28 March 2011

Edited to correct typo. Should read NOW.

John Taylor recommended relining rather than reboring because the older nickel steel Winchester barrels are hard to get good interior finish on. Cost is about the same either way.

Have not had a chance to get to the range as I have been home recovering from prostate cancer surgery. Now 3 weeks post-op and back to work on light duty, a range trip is planned soon, so stay tuned.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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fRANK46 posted this 29 March 2011

Ed, first off I wish you a speedy recovery. Love your"new” winchester. I seem to remember (CRS) that there was a 35 caliber cartridge based on the 30-30 case and believe it was called the 35 Rose. One of the NRA cast bullet books had a picture on the front cover. I have a rather beat up 336 in 30-30 that might make a good canadate for your cartridge. Might also make a good truck gun also. Take care of yourself. Frank

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tturner53 posted this 29 March 2011

You always have something interesting in the works. I have looked at 30-30 wildcats a lot but my darn 94 still shoots good as is so have no excuse. Have a speedy recovery.

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Reg Lingle posted this 29 March 2011

Hi Ed: Get well soon so that we can here of and see the range reports. By the way, whose barrel did you use and what O.D. . I wondering how much turning John had to do? Warmest, Reg

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Shadowdog posted this 29 March 2011

ED, could I have contact info for John Taylor? I have an old 1894 saddle carbine in .30WCF with a poor barrel I would like to have re-lined.

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Ed Harris posted this 30 March 2011

Did not rebarrel, but relined, to preserve original exterior markings and patina. Not sure whose liner he used.

John Taylor Machine 14119 Military Rd. E Puyallup, WA 98374

(253) 445-4073

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Shadowdog posted this 30 March 2011

Thanks, Ed. Mine is pretty well shot out, 4” at 50yds. is the best it'll do.

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6pt-sika posted this 31 March 2011

That cartridge has intrested me in the past although I never got a rifle chambered in it !

 

Your old Winnie is rather sporty looking on the outside . Rifle looks good but I couldn't have redone a nice old one like that !

 

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6pt-sika posted this 31 March 2011

Ed Harris wrote: Did not rebarrel, but relined, to preserve original exterior markings and patina. Not sure whose liner he used.

John Taylor Machine 14119 Military Rd. E Puyallup, WA 98374

(253) 445-4073 When I was thinking about relining a couple of the then new Marlin 1895CB's I found two guys in the Pacific Northwest that did reline jobs . And one of the two manufactured his own liners . Now I am not sure if it was this guy or the other one I cannot remmember the name of . The guy who made his own was gonna stick me about $300 7 or 8 years ago for a 33 WCF , 38-56 or 40-65 liner in an octagon 1895CB barrel .

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Ed Harris posted this 31 March 2011

6pt-sika wrote: When I was thinking about relining a couple of the then new Marlin 1895CB's I found two guys in the Pacific Northwest that did reline jobs...The guy who made his own was gonna stick me about $300 7 or 8 years ago for a 33 WCF , 38-56 or 40-65 liner in an octagon 1895CB barrel . That's close to what I paid for this one, not including return shipping, etc.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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72coupe posted this 01 April 2011

Interesting project Ed. Hope you are better soon health wise.

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Ed Harris posted this 04 April 2011

Had a chance to shoot the rifle over the weekend. Open sight groups at 100 yards with hand rested on deck rail around 4 inches, no different from any other open-sighted 94, and the 200-gr. RCBS bullet with 16 grs. of #2400 gave 1430 f.p.s. with the powder charge leveled and 1570 when the powder is tipped back against the primer. I will try a slight increase in the #2400 powder charge to see if it is more uniform, but with plainbased loads I may try Bullseye to see if I can get more uniform velocities around 1300 fps. Bet 7 grs. will work.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 20 April 2011

5-22-2011 - Reshot the Bullseye charge establishment with plainbased bullet using the Modified Saeco 201-gr. flatnosed, cup point by http://www.hollowpointmold.com>www.hollowpointmold.com  

7.2 grs. of Bullseye 1050 f.p.s. -  Sd 37, ten shots 7.8 grs. of Bullseye 1250 f.p.s. -  Sd 19, ten shots   8.4 grs. of Bullseye 1313 f.p.s. -  Sd 11, ten shots   Subsonic loads were very quiet and low noise, but velocity variation was not acceptable below 1000 f.p.s.

I didn't use any case filler and made no attempt to orient powder charge, I just shoved 'em past the loading gate, levered them in and banged them off, multi-tasking feed check, velocity and making gong music.  Groups are eyeballed observation of strikes observed on 12 inch gong in the spotting scope judging against the gong diameter, shooting after spraying fresh coat of paint for each string. Used Winchester LP primers.  

7.2 grains of Bullseye is a bit light, cases came out smoky, but shoots well.  I don't recommend less than 7 grs. of Bullseye in this case.

The loads bracketing 8 grs. of Bullseye shot very well and gave uniform velocities. Accuracy is 3-4 inches for five shots at 100 yards with open sights, as good as I can hold.  Now that I have the plainbase load settled, I'm going to try increasing the charge with #2400 using the RCBS GC bullet, looking at 18 grs. or so to see how that does.

Stay tuned.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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galenaholic posted this 20 April 2011

Sounds to me like a really nice fun gun. best kind to have around. B)

Hope you heal up quikly from your surgery. I had mine done 6 years ago and I'm testing clean and green.

Paul B.

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docbob posted this 20 April 2011

Ed, Glad you're doing ok. I think you did a good thing relining the ol' girl. That's gotta be a fun cartridge to shoot and much more fun than just looking at an old rifle that wouldn't shoot accurately anymore.

   Doc

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Ed Harris posted this 21 April 2011

galenaholic wrote: Hope you heal up quikly from your surgery. I had mine done 6 years ago and I'm testing clean and green. B) Been back to work two weeks.  Still technically on light duty, but easing back into my field work. Last night walked an hour on the treadmill, moderate pace of 2.5 mph, with 5 degree incline.  Not enough to get winded, but enough to break a sweat and improve general muscle tone and condition.  Doc says I can start again on the weight machine in May, but only at 1/2 of the weight I was using pre-surgery and 1/2 the reps, see how that goes. Looking more for restoring muscle tone and range of motion. Add back 10% per week and within 4-6 weeks or so, 90 days post-surgery, should be almost back where I was without restriction.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 22 April 2011

Just received back from Erik at http://www.hollowpointmold.com>http://www.hollowpointmold.com a Saeco #351 double-cavity modified to .250 meplat with cup point, new .359 driving band .175 wide cut ahead of crimp groove to fill throat, base band enlarged to .359 and widened to .12, lube groove reduced in width and depth to strengthen base band and put some weight back into bullet to partly make up for the loss where spitzer point was truncated to make the .250 meplat.

Resulting bullet has nice long bearing surface and shorter bore riding nose which now fits the throat of the 94 lever-action perfectly, casts .359 diameter and 201 grains from 10 BHN soft backstop lead. Looks sort of like a .38-55 slug which shrunk in the washing machine. Crimp groove and one small grease groove not much larger than the crimp groove.  That's all that should be necessary because I will use this plainbase with the Lee Liquid Alox, and it will be slobbered all over anyway.

Goal is low noise with good balance of expansion and penetration for adequate "smash” on deer or large varmints in garden out to about 100 yards without disturbing the neighbors. First trial out of the box will probably be about 8 grains of Bullseye.

Will post photos and groups when I have some to show.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Mnshooter posted this 22 April 2011

Interesting thread. I have heard of the 35-30 or whatever it is called. It is mentioned in “Cartridges of the World” under wildcats. I think they load it to about the same as a 35 Remington. The rifle itself has got to be an old one as it does not have the barrel rings and that old sight is intriguing.

DP

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