I asked this question back on March 10 in the Reloading Cookbook--it had 26 looks but no answers. Please allow me to greatly simplify the question in this forum:
Are there any loads out there, using pistol powders, that will cycle a Garand? Your thoughts and comments will be appreciated!
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No. There are no pistol powders that have a long enough pressure inpulse to reach the gas port that would not over pressurize the case. HTH, Ric
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It is going to take from 32 to 40 grains of a powder from 4895 to 4831 to provide the proper pressure at the gas port to cycle the action. The old rule of never using a powder slower than 4895 does not apply to low velocity cast bullets.
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That's what I thought but just wanted to make sure---thanks for the reply!
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Mine runs 100% with 33 grains of TAC and a Lyman 314299 sized to .310.
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I remember about 15 years back in a Guns&Ammo magazine that there was a big debate on loads. I wish I had the mag but I'm sure it is long gone. As I remember there were efforts being made to modify the gas system to handle different loads and I'm sure it was to increase velocity. I think they came to the conclusion that the rifle was best left alone and to use clean burning powders.
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The issue is that to cycle an M1, a 170-200 grain cast bullet needs to be going about 1,900 fps. This starts to put you in the “knowledgeable” section of reloading with cast bullets. This is not a slur but a fact that cast and higher velocity needs a bit more experience and thought where loads under that velocity are easier to work with, lead less and tend to be more accurate. Pistol powders at that velocity have pretty high pressure and more issues with leading, etc.
An as issued M1 is a battle rifle and while not inaccurate, it is never (even with NM modification) going to be as accurate as a bolt gun will be, especially with cast. Mine will put everything in 2” at 50 yards off of a rest, while my 1903A3 is more like 1” with the same 1,500 fps load (which will not cycle the M1's action). Loads that cycle the action start to open up to more like 3” at 50 yards. I am sure if the rifle is right and you have the right load, smaller groups are possible, it just takes more work. Diminishing returns will be the ultimate judge of what is possible. For me once the rifle needs to cycle, a jacketed bullet will be more accurate. That said, I use a warm cast load on a reduced range so that I can practice the rapid fire portions of the CMP matches. The soft lead is less of a fire danger in the summer months than is surplus HXP M2 Ball.
Wineman
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After a lot of work a long time ago, I settled on 20.5 Gr. 4759 and the Lyman 311284 bullet. I was looking for a load that would easily hold the 10-ring, with mostly X's off the bench, so I could use it for offhand practice. It was not too unusual to get a good ten ring group, with 5 to 7 X's off the bench, with the military sights. (My eyes were a lot younger then.) At that time, I did not know abouit hardening lead bullets, so I found that I had to run a cleaning rod through the barrell every 20-30 rounds. No big deal; it was a time trade-off. My time instead of expensive Sierra 168 gr. Matchkings.
In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.
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A much delayed 'THANK YOU!' for your response! I never factored in the fact that a load that will not cycle the M1 would be more accurate than one that will.
Very interesting indeed. I'm sure your observation is spot on but it will be fun to test this out. Again, thanks.
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Thank you Buttstock, that was very helpful!! I appreciate your efforts to bring me this info!
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