CBA Member

RicinYakima posted this 25 February 2011

joe,

3: I have no interest in this issue.

2: This has always been one of my interests, but how do you quanitify this with all of the case volumes and shapes we cast bullet shooters use? I have a good record for one case, one bullet and two powders, but it doesn't seem to carry across to other cases.

1: I would interested in the results, but don't have the time to do any research in this area.

Ric

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CBA Member

Ed Harris posted this 25 February 2011

Spending so much time involved in petty minutae is a substitute for getting out to the range and shooting, which is the real purpose of the exercise. The foreplay is a distraction and gets in the way of simply doing it, matter of factly without alot of whooplah.

Bill Ruger described this as “picking the flysh!t out of pepper.” The soup tastes no different and all it does is delay getting dinner on the table. Nobody can tell the difference so all the nonsense it isn't worth the effort.

Frank Marshall always told me that UNLESS somebody was PAYING me to do it, just stick to the simple principles that you know work. Get down to business, cut foreplay and don't sweat the other stuff. Don't send out enless patrols probing the enemies defenses. Just get a few guys with balls and plenty of bangalores, blow a hole thorugh the wire and run through the line throwing grenades shooting on sight anybody who doesn't have an M1, a Thompson or a .45 in his hands. Really simple in concept. Write your grid coordinates down and be ready to call supporting arty to cover your retreat if you need to, but just quit whining, get in there and do it. Frank compared what he called the “useless fiddling” concept to GIs stuck on latrine duty and KP reading pornography because they couldn't get a pass to visit the whorehouse in town. The older I get the more sense Frank's simple, salty statement makes.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Reg posted this 25 February 2011

"Picking the flysh!t out of pepper ” !!!!!!!!!! What a hoot !!! Like to fell out of my chair !!!! Good one !!!

:dude::wav3:

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JetMech posted this 25 February 2011

Ed Harris wrote: Frank Marshall always told me that UNLESS somebody was PAYING me to do it, just stick to the simple principles that you know work. Get down to business, cut foreplay and don't sweat the other stuff. Don't send out enless patrols probing the enemies defenses. Just get a few guys with balls and plenty of bangalores, blow a hole thorugh the wire and run through the line throwing grenades shooting on sight anybody who doesn't have an M1, a Thompson or a .45 in his hands. Really simple in concept. Write your grid coordinates down and be ready to call supporting arty to cover your retreat if you need to, but just quit whining, get in there and do it. Frank compared what he called the “useless fiddling” concept to GIs stuck on latrine duty and KP reading pornography because they couldn't get a pass to visit the whorehouse in town. The older I get the more sense Frank's simple, salty statement makes. Talk about “Speaking Frankly", great stuff, Ed. Frank's no longer with us, so thank the Good Lord we still have men like you around.

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Michael Petrov posted this 25 February 2011

Well I try to pick it out and have found that the little things do make a difference.

I change lube more often than not because of the outside temperature. My best lube, Alox-Beeswax does not work very well when the temperature is in the high 70's. I've made a number of different lubes over the years and now down to four that I try with each new bullet, barrel.

Because I shoot older schuetzen rifles I was taught to use Remington large pistol primers which are claimed to be better on the softer barrels.

I think it all comes down to what you are trying to achieve in the accuracy department. When you need to consistently strive for under 1/2 MOA the little things do matter.

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joeb33050 posted this 26 February 2011

Ed;

I take this to mean that you are not going to participate in this pushing back of the frontiers of cast bullet knowledge. What a relief. Keep pushing the “Ed's Red” and “The Load ” business, but remember A. Lincoln who said:"You can fool some of the people...."

joe b.

Ed Harris wrote: Spending so much time involved in petty minutae is a substitute for getting out to the range and shooting, which is the real purpose of the exercise. The foreplay is a distraction and gets in the way of simply doing it, matter of factly without alot of whooplah.

Bill Ruger described this as “picking the flysh!t out of pepper.” The soup tastes no different and all it does is delay getting dinner on the table. Nobody can tell the difference so all the nonsense it isn't worth the effort.

Frank Marshall always told me that UNLESS somebody was PAYING me to do it, just stick to the simple principles that you know work. Get down to business, cut foreplay and don't sweat the other stuff. Don't send out enless patrols probing the enemies defenses. Just get a few guys with balls and plenty of bangalores, blow a hole thorugh the wire and run through the line throwing grenades shooting on sight anybody who doesn't have an M1, a Thompson or a .45 in his hands. Really simple in concept. Write your grid coordinates down and be ready to call supporting arty to cover your retreat if you need to, but just quit whining, get in there and do it. Frank compared what he called the “useless fiddling” concept to GIs stuck on latrine duty and KP reading pornography because they couldn't get a pass to visit the whorehouse in town. The older I get the more sense Frank's simple, salty statement makes.

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LWesthoff posted this 26 February 2011

Is “joeb33050” our old friend Joe Brennan under another name, or is it his brother?

Wes

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billwnr posted this 26 February 2011

LWesthoff wrote: Is “joeb33050” our old friend Joe Brennan under another name, or is it his brother?

Wes

Might be one of the twins. Yes it is Joe.

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CB posted this 26 February 2011

I'd prefer this didn't start again but I have to wonder how well the “Suggestions” would have been received if the deliverer would have been somebody else. Don't kill the message because you have a problem with the messenger.

I find Joe's suggestions no stranger than watching people fall all over themselves turning $39 break open shotguns into who knows how much .32 SW long break open shotguns/rifles so they can kill rabbits when there's a plethora of good 22 caliber rifles and pistols out there that'd serve the purpose fine.

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billwnr posted this 26 February 2011

joeb33050 wrote: It seems to me that business is slow on this forum. I don't know why that is, but I have a/some suggestions that might get things going.

Believe it or not, there are some things that I don't know about cast bullets. My suggestion/s am that we attempt to find answers to the things we don't know. This might require a PLAN showing what and how, and some PEOPLE to follow the plan.

Here are some examples of questions that we might answer:

In the 2010 Gun Digest there's a Ken Waters article that tells how long it takes to cast bullets. Lately I have kept a record of time taken to CAST, INSPECT/WEIGH, and LUBE/SIZE cast bullets. We could know how long these and other steps take if we were to record the times and # of bullets for each step-and there are other steps than mine.

joe b.Ã‚Â

Back when I started shooting in the CBA matches in 2006 I had to make bullets on the weekend in between the matches.

To get 100 good match bullets it took me either 3 1/2 or 4 1/2 hours. That's from starting the mould up to installing the last gas check.

There's a lot of time to be saved by casting over the winter in one giant lot of bullets. Only the very underweight bullets on the left side of the bell curve need to be discarded. The rest can be weighed and sorted into 100 bullet cases (by weight) for the upcoming matches.

By doing them in little one match “lots” the discarded bullets come from both the left and right side of the bell curve.

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hunterspistol posted this 26 February 2011

:coffee Do lubes make a difference? Probably.

Do primers make a difference? Probably.

Do I care how much time it takes or, what amount of money it should be worth? Probably not.

Sorry, gents, I'm not retired yet and don't have the time to do all this. When that time comes, I may not care to do it then, either. I won't say it wouldn't be interesting though.

Ron

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Brodie posted this 26 February 2011

Shoot More.

Talk Less!

B.E.Brickey

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CB posted this 27 February 2011

Old Coot wrote: Talk Less! I thought talking was the purpose of a forum.

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LWesthoff posted this 27 February 2011

I think the purpose of this forum is to talk, all right, but to TALK ABOUT CAST BULLET SHOOTING. Not to bore all the rest of us with personal insults whenever someone disagrees with something we may have said! Now how about we drop this crap and get back on the subject of cast bullet shooting?

Wes

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corerf posted this 27 February 2011

Well said Wes.

That is a good “suggestion". Right along the lines of the start of this thread.

Some members here have a knack for pissing folks off with their responses. Maybe; to quote a great orator and contemporary thinker who I respect very much, Rodney King, “why can't we all just get along".

I do think some folks have way too much time on their hands on this forum. If you have time to piss folks off, you need to find another something to do with the excess free time that is productive, other than your next ” go postal on CBA members day".

Throw me off the ASSOCIATION please as I am loosing much respect for some. This forum has been stable for a while, but is getting to be like some others.

Maybe some of us have outlived our time on the forum. I speak for myself first and foremost, but some others as well!

I am sure this thread will bear a fantastic witness to the CBA and cause many others to join and be fulfilled. I am sure the BOD can be pleased with the outcome of this thread. Hope its only seen on a members only page. I am embarrased for all of us!

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giorgio de galleani posted this 27 February 2011

I am following Frank Marshall and Ed Harris ,For my shooting I need minute of boar at 15 paces and soot the Steel plates at steel challenge.

I am not shooting 100 yards bench rest with my cow boy guns.

My sports need lots of practice ,

Any how any normal lube is enough for me,I use magnum primers in rifles and large pistol cases.For better ignition and have a lot of gang molds , aluminum and iron,

Look at some short range plates at Fort Carnabino,Italy.

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jhalcott posted this 27 February 2011

I don't know what alll the fuss is, but I HAVE found different lubes and primers to give different results. The bigger question is DO I NEED A HALF INCH GROUP!? Since I don't any more ,I go with what I got. As long as it's a safe load that will kill the animal or hit the target I'm aiming at I am happy. Now that I'm retired,I can take as long as I want to cast a bunch of projectiles. Maybe I'll inspect them with a magnifying glass or just use them with out any inspection. Time is on MY side!!

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JeffinNZ posted this 27 February 2011

Primers make a difference in smaller capacity cases in my experience. My .223 and .32-20 have preferences in this domain. The .303 Brit does not. Kinda makes sense. The same amount of 'flash' over a smaller volume is going to have more impact so variances in primers will be noticeable.

Cheers from New Zealand

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JetMech posted this 27 February 2011

joeb33050 wrote: It seems to me that business is slow on this forum. I don't know why that is, but I have a/some suggestions that might get things going.

Believe it or not, there are some things that I don't know about cast bullets. My suggestion/s am that we attempt to find answers to the things we don't know. This might require a PLAN showing what and how, and some PEOPLE to follow the plan.

Here are some examples of questions that we might answer:

LUBE I have never found an accuracy difference between two reasonable lubes. If there is one, a difference, don't we want to know? This requires some shooting of bullets using 2 or more lubes.
PRIMERS I have never found an accuracy difference between any two primers. I have used Remington 2 1/2 primers with cast bullets for many years, and “think” that they provide more accuracy, but don't know. If there is a difference, don't we want to know? This requires some shooting with 2 or more primers of each size.
In the 2010 Gun Digest there's a Ken Waters article that tells how long it takes to cast bullets. Lately I have kept a record of time taken to CAST, INSPECT/WEIGH, and LUBE/SIZE cast bullets. We could know how long these and other steps take if we were to record the times and # of bullets for each step-and there are other steps than mine.

And the list goes on.

We could replace opinion with data, and maybe be better off for it.

Any interest?

joe b.

Joe,

I think the problem is that most of us do not have the intense interest you do in the extreme detalis. There's no doubt that experimentation in lubes across a wide variety of cartridges, loads, weather conditions, etc. would benefit the membership. The problem, from my perspective is that most of us already spend what time we have working on the projects that are important to us.

Me, I'm busy plunking rounds down range to see if I can get some decent scores in a high power match. Also working on my pistol shooting and trying different casting techniques for big bullets. Others have their pet projects. Me, I'm interseted in #1, slightly interestedin #2 , but the results would be of little help to me, and #3 is just a waste of time to me, from my prspective.

So, while some would be interested in some of the results, I see no one, other than you, who seems to have the time and inclination to undertake these projects.

You are to be commended for attempting to stir up some interest. But right now, I suspect the majority of members are busy assembling loads from the winter casting season. That's what I'm doing.

Respectfully,

Bill

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CB posted this 27 February 2011

Sorry that I am getting in late.

CBA members have a wide variety of interest in the different areas of cast bullet shooting. All have something to contribute. If you are a competitive shooter you may not have much interest in banging away at tin cans. If you are mainly interested in cast bullets for hunting you may not be much interested in squeezing the last drop of accuracy out of a heavy target rifle or an obsolete military rifle. But you don't have to speak scornfully of anything you are not interested in.

No matter what your interest or how little you are interested in what another member likes to play with there is one thing we can do and that is show respect for each other. If your are not interested in what someone wants to discuss on the forum, please just go on to another topic. You don't have a duty, or even a right, to trash the suggestion.

I get quite a bit of pleasure out of reading what people have to say on the forum. I often get answers for a question I have and I like to think that I sometimes return the favor when I can help. The discussions I like best are the ones where different opinions are discussed in a civil way. Some of the posts in this thread obviously don't qualify as civil discussion.

If you join an organization it seems to me that you have a responsibility to use common courtesy with other members.

John

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3: I have no interest in this issue.

2: This has always been one of my interests, but how do you quanitify this with all of the case volumes and shapes we cast bullet shooters use? I have a good record for one case, one bullet and two powders, but it doesn't seem to carry across to other cases.

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