45-70 RD 350gr

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  • Last Post 28 November 2011
gregg posted this 24 October 2010

45-70 RD 350gr WILL IT 1-30 expand at 1500FPS???

I could HP with a forister(sp) case trimmer HP Att.

I'm looking at 30 gr 5744. I tell you what I'm getting to the age

that I'm not sure I need a cape Buff load to kill 150 lb deer at 100 yards.

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rmrix posted this 24 October 2010

My experience is that if it is still going 1100 fps when it hits the target (deer) it will expand. This with 20 to 1. Your 30 to 1 is softer still, but not much.

I bet you recover few bullets with that load. I think any good hit is meat in the freezer.

 It is a good combo in my opinion.

All the best,

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6pt-sika posted this 24 October 2010

Couple years ago I killed the largest racked whitetail of my hunting career and one of the top 3 heaviest whitetails of my hunting career .

 

I used a Marlin “New Model 1895” circa 1978 with the Micro Groove barrel . I was shooting the Ranch Dog 460-350GC bullet cast straight from wheelweights and aircooled . I would say my alloy was close to 1/20 . I pushed that bullet with 34 grains of XMP5744 and set it off with a CCI200 primer . Round did well in my rifle and was not hard on the shoulder . And this from a rifle with a semi curved plastic buttplate .Incidently the hole going in was normal size (of course) and the hole coming out was a little smaller then a golfball . Shot the deer at 57 yards behind the shoulder and he barely made it 40 yards after the shot .

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gregg posted this 25 October 2010

So I should not have to HP this bullet you all feel???

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6pt-sika posted this 25 October 2010

gregg wrote: So I should not have to HP this bullet you all feel???

I haven't seen a need for a HP in this bullet !

 

However NOE is making both this bullet and the Ranch Dog 460-425GC with a HP option . Well I say Ranch Dog bullets , but NOE uses a convetional lube groove as oppossed to the tumble lube grooves on RD's bullets .

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Lefty posted this 27 October 2010

My sample size isn't large but I have killed six bucks with various 45-70s. Flat point bullets have been consistently deadly so I have never even considered HPs. I shot a 400 gr round nose when I hunted mule deer in Wyoming. I pushed them at about 1750 fps out of a Browning single shot. They were very accurate but you were well advised to break bones regardless of the angle of your shot.

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gregg posted this 27 October 2010

I have killed most my deer with a 50cal round ball ??? Maybe 30/06 ???

<>45/70 Trapdoor Springfield with Black powder. One. Just below the spine. <> 45/70 Guild Gun , Ranch Dog 350 gr, Moveing fast One. It was walking away Quartering shot missed ribs and shoulder hit spine in neck base in shoulder. <*>Guild Gun group buy 400 gr flat nose 1400 FPS two three inchs below spine . She went down and stayed but head was up trying to pull herself away.   Point is yes you guys have way more kills and ideas with the 45/70 than I do .. I'm thinking 45-70 had a big part in killing thousnds of buff. Little Deer. What the Heck.

Picking up soft scrap lead Thursday. 75 cents a Lb. Just so you know . He don't think he has much. So we will go see. I will buy all I can or he has. I'm thinking I will be lucky to find 25 Lbs there.

There will be kid/kids there needing there first deer so most likely be just a weekend carrying a rifle. I'm really good with that. Just so you all know this is more thinking and planning than it will likely be a deer killing.;)

:lovecast:

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6pt-sika posted this 27 October 2010

gregg wrote: Point is yes you guys have way more kills and ideas with the 45/70 than I do .. I'm thinking 45-70 had a big part in killing thousnds of buff. Little Deer. What the Heck. ;)

:lovecast:

While it isn't needed I've used the 45-70 with several jacketed bullets and excellent results on deer . All the jacketed bullets I used were 300 grainers ! The no longer made Nosler 300 grain Partition and another I “think” you can still get the Barnes 300 grain “Original” .

As to cast I've used the Ranch Dog 460-350GC and 460-425GC . Both worked well for me with XMP5744 . I have since however revamped my loads for both these bullets to a little more velocity with H322 .

And with that being said I decided to take a couple more steps with the 45-70 and acquired a BRP 462-465GC mold as well as a Ballisti Cast 462-550GC mold . Both of these shoot very well with H322 also . Believe it or not recoil from the BRP 465 is not as offensive as the RD 425 grainer . The Ballisti Cast 550 grainer is not a sharp excessive recoil but more of a strong push that you know is going to move you a bit regardless .

While I don't “need” a bullet larger then the Ranch Dog 460-350GC for use around here in my 45-70 I “wanted” the others so they will eventually get “used” . To be honest I would love to pop and elk with bothe the BRP 462-465GC and the Ballisti Cast 462-550GC .

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6pt-sika posted this 27 October 2010

The first deer I ever killed with a 45-70 was shot from a tang sighted Marlin 1895CB . This is the Cowboy model with the 26” octagon barrel and I had removed the rear sight and installed a Lyman tang sight . Anyway I shot this one loaded with the 330 grain “Gould” HP PB bullet and pushed with 31.5 grains of SR4759 . When I shot the deer I was about 20 feet up a tree in a stand and the deer was a measured 21 yards from me on the ground sniffing a scent cloth . At the crack of the rifle it looked to me as if the carpet had been pulled from beneath that deer as he folded right up !

There was one entrance hole and two exit holes . This deer was also in the top three heaviest whitetails I'd ever killed . In actuallity where this deer and the big buck I killed with the RD 350  both hit the ground was less then 150 yards apart . While this deer I killed with the Gould bullet didn't have as good a rack he was still a nice wide 6 point iof about 3 1/2 years .

With the 45-70 and the 444 the percentage of “dead right there” deer with both these calibers is a good bit greater with cast bullets then jacketed . Although with the 45-70 I've had one deer with both jacketed and one deer with cast move more then 5 steps after they were shot . The 444 has a far higher drt % with cast as 90% of the deer and bear I've popped with that one dropped at the shot while those shot with jacketed in the 444 were more like 50% .

Now while DRT is a great thing most of the ones that ran a ways after the shot I saw go down as I'm usually up a tree somewhere at 24-36 feet off the ground and I can see a pretty decent ways . And with that being said the furthest I think I ever had to go to get one of the deer shot with jacketed or cast in the 444 or 45-70 was in the 50-75 yard range . So either way one went with either of these cartridges would be okay in my somewhat biased opinion ;)

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Notlwonk posted this 02 November 2010

Last years deer was taken with a Trapdoor and a 20:1 Lyman 457122 using 24 or 26 grs 4759. The deer was pretty much face on and the bullet destroyed the shoulder and exited except for a misshapened chunk on the ground after the deer was all cut up.

 That Lyman mould comes a HP, I removed the HP pin and made a shorter pin that leaves a slight dimple on the nose of the bullet. The original pin was a little eccentric and the accuracy was not great. I don't think the dimple does any thing, I just wanted to make sure there was not a projection on the face of the bullet.

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gregg posted this 02 November 2010

:dude:

In a 9 pound lead I added 4 oz of tin to fill out the bullet. I will let you math guys do the math. Its not even 30 to 1??? Ok Ok I will do the math when I get off here . But if I hit something I will report here...

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6pt-sika posted this 07 November 2010

I used the aforementioned Ranch Dog 460-350GC bullet in my old 1978 vintage Marlin 1895 to take a big buck using XMP5744 , used a non ported Marlin 1895G with the Ranch Dog 460-425GC and again XMP5744 to kill another buck . As well as a Marlin 1895CB with the Lyman “Gould” 330 grain HP PB to kill a big 6 point while being pushed by SR4759 . All those worked nicely .

 

Now I have a 1972 vintage Marlin 1895 setup with a old Weaver K3 and loaded with the BRP 462-465GC bullet being pushed by H322 . This one is a bit stout no doubt . But I had a second scracked stock that will fit this rifle . So we glued the stock and bedded it in the contact points where the break was . Am also going to install a KickEeez pad so the semi curved buttplate doesn't dig in my shoulder and the original factory stock stays intact !

 

My original intention was to use this stock just for bench work but if it comes up nicely I may use it for hunting also !

For me this just might be the perfect setup in a 45-70 !

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6pt-sika posted this 07 November 2010

I am thinking that pad shud tame the 465 and 550 grain bullets I've been shooting lately .>

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gregg posted this 12 November 2010

Let us know how it goes...;}

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gregg posted this 12 November 2010

Let us know how it goes...;}

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6pt-sika posted this 13 November 2010

When I originally started with the 465 grainers and the 550 grainers I used a Pachmyer slip on pad at the bench . WHile it helped it wasn't the best .

When I remmembered I had this old extra stock I took it in and put a 1 1/8” KickEez on the back refinished the extra butt and took it to the range last wednesday !

The 465's didn't seem to have any recoil with this pad on and the 550's still moved me but it wasn't as much as before !

I still wanna try the Ranch Dog 460-425GC in this rifle with a stout load of H322 . That one thumped me harder then the two larger bullets in my old rifle with the semi curved plastic buttplate !

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onondaga posted this 17 November 2011

I base my belief on expansion with the old Lyman #2 alloy presumption. Your 30:1 alloy is softer so you will have even more expansion.

Flat nose cast bullets cast from the #2 ALLOY  should be expected to expand to double diameter at impact  energy levels of 1000 foot pounds and higher.

Use the simple online ballistic calculator to determine where your maximum distance that 1000 foot pounds is available for a clean humane kill:

http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html>http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html

With some manipulation, you will find that the minimum muzzle velocity you can load at with your RD .460-350 to get 1000 foot pounds at 100 yards is: 1285 fps. Muzzle velocity.   That load delivers about 1008 foot pounds with 1139 fps at 100 yards for a clean humane kill. A broadside vital hit should produce a bang flop quick kill to be humane and that load will do it at 100 yards.

1285 fps with the RD bullet in a 45-70 will likely give you great accuracy also.

If you have  chronographed your 30 grain load of AA5744, you can use the reduced load calculator on line to predict how many grains you will need for1285 fps MV.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/reduced.asp>http://www.handloads.com/calc/reduced.asp

If you haven't chronographed your load you can still use the calculator based on the Lyman 4th edition cast bullet handbook page 217 for a 45-70 load using a same weight bullet and AA5744. The calculator will spit out a reduced load of 26.2 grains of 5744 to achieve  1285 fps for a 350 gr bullet out of your rifle. This is below recommended minimum charge and you may require a filler for good ignition.. I use BPI Original Ballistic Filler for 104% density loadings for my reduced loads at this level in my .458 Win Mag with the RD Bullet. The 45-70 will require less filler for a 104% density load and be safe also.

BPI source:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/695248/bpi-shot-buffer-original-500cc-approximately-1-2-lb>http://www.midwayusa.com/product/695248/bpi-shot-buffer-original-500cc-approximately-1-2-lb

 The 26.2 grains of AA5744 will have noticeably  less recoil than the 30 grain AA5744 load  and have reliable clean kill energy and expansion at 100 yards with a broadside vital hit.

Gary

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afish4570 posted this 18 November 2011

I have used the Gould 457122 FP not HP and found even at 1300 fps it was a good performer and used it at 1750 fps and never really noticed the difference in stopping power (just felt recoil) in my Ruger #3.   Never thought much about expansion as I was always told its “preexpanded” not to worry. When these large flat points hit any bone that becomes a secondary projectiles and they increase the killing and stopping pwr......that's my experience.  The actual wt. of my bullets are 338 grs. enough to penetrate  alot deer if Texas heart shot is used. This as the old history on this bullet has been written. The 5 that I shot with this bullet were all broadside or quartering facing me.  This style made by Ranch Dog should b e a great bullet for the Marlin.afish4570:dude::dude:

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afish4570 posted this 18 November 2011

I have used the Gould 457122 FP not HP and found even at 1300 fps it was a good performer and used it at 1750 fps and never really noticed the difference in stopping power (just felt recoil) in my Ruger #3.   Never thought much about expansion as I was always told its “preexpanded” not to worry. When these large flat points hit any bone that becomes a secondary projectiles and they increase the killing and stopping pwr......that's my experience.  The actual wt. of my bullets are 338 grs. enough to penetrate  alot deer if Texas heart shot is used. This as the old history on this bullet has been written. The 5 that I shot with this bullet were all broadside or quartering facing me.  This style made by Ranch Dog should b e a great bullet for the Marlin.afish4570:dude::dude:

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Brodie posted this 18 November 2011

Gregg;  I'm no math whiz but you are using a 1part Sn to 36 parts Pb.  You can figure it out with  lbs lead x16oz/lb divided by ounces of tin per melt and you get parts of tin per lbs of melt.  You would need 4..8 ounces of tin per ten lbs of alloy to get a 1in 30 tin lead alloy.

Personally I think that a 45 cal hole through the lungs of a deer equals a dead deer.

Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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6pt-sika posted this 18 November 2011

20-1 , 25-1 , 30-1 it's all good if one wants to deal with it !

For my own use on deer and bear I've found air cooled and water quenched wheelweights to be fine for all I've needed to do so far in the 444 or 45-70 .

 

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