Does anyone out there have any information or references to information concerning Rueben Harwood ( Iron Ramrod ) or the .22 Harwood Hornet. Any info would be appreciated but am especially looking for case or chamber dimentions. Stories of loading or using the cartrige information and about Harwood himself. Thanks Reg
:dude:
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Reg, Try this:
Necked down from the original 25-20 Single Shot, Reuben Harwood in 1894, developed ... m sure, this is a list of MFG's that have or still are chambering the Hornet.
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Here's another one.
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I really do appreciate the replys so far but what I am really after is--- Who was he ? He had to have been quite a writer as he was supposed to had a bunch of articles in the older sporting magazines. Whats the story on the cartridges he came up with, they did pave the way for many of our more modern and usable rounds. Does anyone have any drawings of his cartridges, especially the .22 Harwood Hornet. Would anyone have a good cartridge I could borrow to make a drawing ? Without going into great detail I would like to make up one of the Hornets on a single shot Krag action. Would it be practical, I doubt it but for the guy who already has everything else ????? I do thank all for their responses and tturner53, hang in there, we both might get a education .
Reg ;)
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Contact Rocky Raab @ [email protected]. He has alot of information and might be able to shed some light on your question.
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Hello, Reg. Years ago I purchased at a gun show an old nickle plated Ideal non-adj. tong tool marked .22-20 Hornet. Everyone told me it was for the regular Hornet..I didn't think so as chamber was larger in dia. and besides the Hornet couldn't hold that much powder..The old .22WCF. was designated .22-13-45. Later I found out it was for the Harwood Hornet. This has integeral mould..casts a 55 gr. multi-grooved flat point of .228 dia.
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Wouldn't still have it laying around , would you ?
Reg
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In the 60's Handloader had some information on him. I think books by Landis, Sharpe, or maybe Whelen might have information. I know I have read about him someplace. Maybe F. W. Mann. If I can find anything I will let you know.
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Have read only bits here and there. Landis does make mention as well as a very small amount in Roberts book. Have not checked in Sharps hand loading book , but will look this evening. I do not have a copy of the Rifle in America. For what the person appears to have accomplished in his time it just seems funny there isn't more about him out there. Would like to get more info on the person as well as his cartrige . I have a very nice Krag action just waiting for chamber specs. A loaded shell, perhaps even that tong tool might give all the info needed. I think the only change I would make is in using a .224 barrel. I do have a couple of molds for a .228 head but to go to the effort to come up with a .228 barrel just dosn't pan out. That .004 just isn,t that big of a issue. Wonder how it would preform with todays powders ? What kind of accuracy could we get with todays bullets both cast and jacketed. Velocities in that shape of shell with todays powders ? So many questions. Anyone can go out and throw bux at his local dealer and come up with a WSM or a RUM or the good Lord only knows what they will call the next great creation. Bringing back the Harwood Hornet with the bit of updating is what rings my bell. Also think it would be good to bring back the memory of the guy who made it first and try to understand what he had to work with. Any help with this project would be greatly appreciated.
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Ken Waters “Pet Loads” May 1975 has a few words.
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Landis “22 Caliber Varmint Rifles” page 10 says he had articles in old “Shooting and Fishing” and “Arms and the Man” magazines.
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I do have and have read Landis's book and Roberts too but with my limited library that's about it. I think my biggist problem is I just do not have access to good reference sources such as back issues of the writings of Ken Waters, I assume May 1975 was in the Handloader. I do have limited access to Arms and the Man but have to know exact issues and there again, that,s a tough one.
Its asking far too much but I wish a lot of these great referance sources were on line. We live a long ways out in the boonies and just can't run down to the local library.
Also I question if there are really many articles on the very early experimenters out there. Mann we do know a lot about but Leopold , Harwood and many of the others are just shadowy figures in a dark back ground. Through the years I did manage to get a lot of info on Rowland. Pope has been well covered except for his early years. Believe me, he did a lot in his attic workshop while still working for his Uncle. I have a perfect example of this time frame ( 1895-1896) and its far from a 33-40 on a High Wall action. Hopefully the new book coming out someday will cover those times better.
Would anybody have chamber dimention drawings or references to same or would anybody have a formed case I could borrow to measure?
:} Reg
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I would give Handloader a call. They might know where some information on Harwood is. Or maybe give them a bug for one of there writers to do an article on him. Sometime they are looking for good ideas. With the vast information they have, it might be easer for them. Just a thought.
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Hello, Reg. sorry for late reply. As a matter of fact I have it before me. I have even tried casting with it. All I can say is those old timers were alot tougher that I am...those iron handles get hot! The bullets look nice with square cornered lube grooves..looks like the Ideal .22636. I know Mr. Harwood was an avid woodchuck hunter, as were most of the old time rifle cranks at turn of century..this was reason he developed the ctg., what most varmint hunters are after...more velocity & accuracy. Unfortunatly, he was just a mite too far ahead of his time as smokeless powders and jacketed bullets were still being perfected.
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Reg, reference to Reuben Harwood, about 32 Ideal but thought you would be interested, he sounds as if he was a real (Gun Crank) as they said in days gone by. 32ideal
The Winchester 1900 catalog offered the Single Shot in .32 Ideal. And, of course, you could send in a shot-out small-bore rifle of any make and the Stevens Company would rebore and chamber it up to .32 Ideal for a nominal fee.
The “.32 Ideal Perfection” was one of the many brainchildren of the indefatigable gunsmith/writer/squirrel hunter Reuben Harwood, who wrote under the pen name of “Iron Ramrod.” The shell size and caliber would clean out most of the more easily eroded small caliber chambers and bores, the shell itself embodied all the virtues of the time (straight wall, solid head, inside lubrication) and with the Companion “Perfection” mold in .32 caliber, the crank could endlessly experiment with black and smokeless powder charges, bullet weights, lubes, etc.
Ned Roberts remarked that the cartridge, in trying to cover so many bases at once, achieved excellence in no one particular. It wasn't powerful enough for big game or accurate enough to be competitive at target matches.
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Precision Shooting ran an article entitled “Harwood's .22 Hornet” in their May, 1995, issue starting on page 64. It was written by Jim Foral.
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If you're just looking for the information for your interest there is a little around on the net on the subject and few forums that you could ask in like the ASSRA.
If for research for an article then I suggest that you leave all the later writers such as Roberts and Landis out if it and go to the original source material.
I don't know if there is a library in your area that has a set of Shooting & Fishing, a weekly from 1885-1906 but that's what you need.
If you will write me at [email protected] I'll give you Mr. Foral's email and you can run your questions by him. Like me he is a busy researcher but he might be able to steer you in the right direction.
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An update. Got with Mr. Michael Petrov of Alaska and he kindly provided not only information but another contact source who hit a home run with articles, research papers and a sample cartrige. Hopefully by this time next year there will be another Harwood Hornet rifle out there to play with. Still looking for any other info that might be out there. From information it appears there were at least fifty rifles made from 1891 to about 1897 or there abouts. Harwood made some and it might be that a few were made by Stevens in their custom shop. Its correct name was 22-20-55. There were some loading equipment made for it.
22-10-45----- would you perhaps be intrested in parting with your mold-loading tool ? Be intrested in selling or could it be be borrowed to cast a couple bullets and get a few measurements. I can provide references. Thanks to all !! Reg
:}
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Reg,
Did you get enough info to have a chamber reamer made?
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Dollar Bill: yes, I have a good sample round and Jim Foral, the author of the Precision Shooting article and I have agreed it is a Harwood Hornet. Will get a good chamber and loaded round drawing done up in the next week or so and plan on following that with reamers for both chambering and making a case forming die. Most likely the case forming die first. I am getting into my busy season but plan on staying with this as much as I can in order to have a usable rifle for testing but it might be after deer season before it happens.
32 Ideal : intresting that you would bring this up. Mr. Jim Foral, the author of the Precision shooting article provided me with a great amount of his research documents and in some of them it is mentioned that sometime after 1897, Harwood gave up the Hornet and went on to other calibers and I think one of them was based on the 32 Ideal shell of what you speak. Evadently he simply was not getting the velocity he was after even though he was exceeding 2000 fps with a 48 grain bullet. Not too shabby with black powder and lead heads at all !!!!! If you have further info on this and any other experiments that Harwood worked on would really like to hear it.
At this point I would like to thank Jim Foral. Without his information I would still be knocking on blank doors. This business of going back in time is far more than fun its history. Its study is why we have the great cartriges we have today.
:D
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