Ruger LCP 380auto "Starting Ideas/Input" For my wife.

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  • Last Post 29 August 2010
NITROTRIP posted this 08 May 2010

HI All, I just picked up a Ruger LCP 380auto. Never have cast for this cal, or this type of pistol. A lot of 45auto, 45 colt, 357, 44mag. But nothing this small. I have a Lyman mold #356242   120gr round nose. I want to load cast practice rounds for my wife. Lite powder with a heavy bullet to help cycle the action. She is fine with heavy recoil (push) but not sharp with heavy muzzle blast. She likes my 686 Smith .357 with a 180gr cast but light powder load. But no factory stuff. Now for the 380. The powder I have on hand is, Bulseye, 231, clays, might have a few others that I  don't  rember  at the moment. What do you guy's think? Like what to watch out for? Stay away from? What has worked for you? For her to carry is going to be factory stuff. This it for lite practice to make use like touching up the lipstick out of the purse, useing the cell phone, second nature if that time comes. Hopefully never. Something she will practice with and have fun. Not WHAM! that stings to shoot. None of that +p stuff. Thank You All,

Rick

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tturner53 posted this 29 August 2010

Shot the Lee 358-125RF today in my Firestorm .380 Loaded as cast, but then run thru a Lee Factory Crimp die. Function was 100%. At 25 yds. they grouped into a 6” bull from a sandbag. My load of SR4756 was too stiff though, flattened the primers. I'll definitely back it off. Also shot a clip of 'no factory crimp' for comparison, no difference. Oh, the bullets are .360 from wwac and LLA tumble lubed. Very light leading, just some dry streaks.

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tturner53 posted this 24 August 2010

Thanks for the info. You're right about the need for these molds. I'll go ahead and order the 100 grainer while I can. I have a 125 now, similar bullet, just not a TL design. I do TL them anyway but haven't shot it yet! This mold was my first 6 cav. from Lee and was intended to be used in several applications, considering it drops at .360 and is a plain base. Lots of possibilities there. Even want to try it in my 1894c .357 for a plinker.

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Ranch Dog posted this 24 August 2010

tturner53,

I have a group buy running for the http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_topic.php?id=6289&forum_id=105>TL358-100-RF on this forum, it closes on the end of the month. The 100-grain bullet is suited for any 380 Auto. My TL358-125-RF, the 125-grain bullet, is best suited for full-frame 380 Autos which would include the Firestorm series. I have not offered it yet.

By November 1, I will be back in full swing in the mold business. As soon as I get caught up on my rifle bullet designs, I will be introducing my self defense bullet designs which I have for the 25 ACP, 32 ACP, 380 Auto, and 9mm Luger.

The first three are in desperate need of fairly priced molds. The 9mm Luger interests me as the designs I've tired are that silly .001” under diameter (which makes me crazy) plus I wanted a gas checked design for +P loads.

I'm still up in the air on whether to work with the 40 S&W or not as polygonal barrels dominate this cartridge. Even though I'm a 45 ACP shooter (Glock 36), I've been real slow in considering it as there is already quite a few designs out there.

Bullet Shop will be offering finished bullets in all my designs.

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tturner53 posted this 24 August 2010

Back to the little .380. I've been busy with other projects and have yet to fire a cast bullet thru my Firestorm .380. I have made up some test rounds to be tried next range trip. The Lee 358-125 RF as cast, .360, lightly tumble lubed with LLA/JPW/mineral spirits mix. I'm using 3 gr. of SR4756 and Federal SPs. A slight flare allows me to seat the bullet with no shaving, then I run them thru a carbide FCD. Cycling the action by hand with the safety on they feed and eject fine. I'll try some without the FCD treatment too to see if they are more accurate. Mainly though I'm interested in reliability and no leading. Just for fun I made up a couple dummies with the Lyman 9mm Devastator HP. Looks like they'll work. They actually weigh less than my Lee 125s, which are really 137 gr. RTL. After I play with these heavy bullets I'll try something more traditional like 90-100 grs. I sure would like to get a copy of RD's TL mold for the .380, looks like just the ticket to me.  EDIT; After reading another old post I'm confused(again). Is the Lee TL358-125RF mold for sale ?

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NITROTRIP posted this 18 June 2010

Hello All, Thank you all for your great input. Micheal, your detail of what you do for yours was great and realy helpfull, thank you. I was out of town for a few weeks, the reason for the delay getting back here. My brother came out to visit and he had a new LCP with him. So we tested them with everything we could come up with. His is from the current run. Mine is one of the first. His chamber was the same size as mine, but the inside finish was great. Mine the throat has very rough tooling marks. So mine will lead and copper smear after about 20rds. His will run 200rds and pick up nothing at all. I am at work so I have to keep this short, but will post later. We shot about 1200rds with both pistols, lead and copper. 7 different bullets and all loading levels. We even mixed up everything we had at the same time in each mag. To try and get those pistols to hang up. Week and strong hand, different shooters. They did not malfunction a single time. They shot everything without a hitch. If it fit in the mag and would hand chamber with the barrel out of the slide, it would feed. I, in 39yrs of shooting never seen an auto do that. You could always find something that would not feed. If you have a LCP that will not feed, the only thing I can think of is your mag lips are bent. We also used Promag's Even leaded, mine still shot 1/2 min of dirtbag accuracy. As good as I am able to hold such a small pistol. Ruger did a great job with this one. Mine is a recall pistol, that dropping thing I quess, so I will send it back and have them look at the barrel inside finish also. And see what happens. Then test again. I will post here again when I get it back. And if anyone has any ?'s about what we did please ask.

Thank you all for your input, Rick

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CB posted this 31 May 2010

When you are close enough that a 380, 32 ACP or 22LR is really effective, shoot them in the nuts, when they bend over screaming in pain, put the gun in their ear and finish them.

I have a ultra light weight Smith J Frame, it is brutal to shoot, but much more practical for me to carry. So far since I bought it, I have not needed to use it other than on the range.

Jerry

 

 

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mtgrs737 posted this 29 May 2010

I agree with jerry, not a good primary weapon due to the less powerful cartridge. But better than not having one at all. The main draw of the little pocket 32's and 380's is that they are so small and light you will hardly notice that you are carrying them. A buddy of mine bought a titanium 357 snubby for a carry gun, but shortly ditched it for a Kel-Tec 380.

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CB posted this 28 May 2010

I have a 90 grain Lyman mold, #356242 that I cast bullets for all of the 380s I have owned. Those were really accurate CBs. I am think about a Ranch Dog molds, but I don't carry 380s much any more. I don't think they have enough stopping power.

Jerry

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Ranch Dog posted this 26 May 2010

Ranch Dog wrote: How I setup my bullet seating die for cast bullets, is start by cutting a 5/16” bolt to place in the bullet seating stem so that I do not need to screw the die so deep into the press which will keep the die body off the shell plate. Well, I took my bullet seating die apart and didn't use the bolt in this die. I had enough adjustment in the seating stem to make it work as described.

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Ranch Dog posted this 26 May 2010

I don't think your chamber is over size at .3804", please stick with me through this...

I don't have the SAAMI drawings but do have the CIP drawings. Why you don't find the chamber drawings on the web is that both types of drawings specifically state they are copy forbidden. I've found the CIP drawings much more precise in that the use mm which is easily converted to inches (mm * 0.039370079). Let me try to describe the drawing.

In a nutshell, the absolute maximum diameter of the chamber is .3803” located at the web. In my chamber drawing on page 1 of this topic, my dimension at this point is .3840” (web1). The CIP chamber tapers over its case length (.6823") to a diameter of .3760” at the step which defines the headspace. The CIP drawing states a bore of .3583” and groove of .3559".

Finish reamers cut to the above dimensions +.0000” to +.0004” (per Pacific Tool) so your LCP is simply at the large end of the spectrum and I would not worry about it.

I also looked at my Lee dies today. The mouth of my bullet seating die is .3770” in diameter but this dimension is truly insignificant.

I do not use the Carbide Factory Crimp Die with any cast bullet application. The carbide sizing ring will size both the bullet and cartridge. Instead, for semi progressive and progressive reloading I purchase an additional bullet seating die body which I use exclusively for crimping.

My .358” 125-grain bullet cycles great, especially against the factory 90-grain offerings. All these pistols are blowback and I feel the heavy bullets insure a positive feed. I hope this information is some help for you. 

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mtgrs737 posted this 25 May 2010

For a little more reading have a look at:

WWW.elsiepeaforum.com

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NITROTRIP posted this 25 May 2010

Well it is starting to look like my chamber is a little oversize at .3806. That is why I am able to shoot Lyman # 358242 long 124gr with the slightly modified standared seating die used as a sizer. Finished case dia .377.  But it is a very nice practice load useing WW231 at 2gr with that soft 124gr bullet. Anyone else that has a .380 auto, it would be great to hear from you with a chamber size. And how they feed and size. Or LCP's if they have a .377 chamber or smaller and if they will feed anything like my wife's.

Thank you all,

Rick

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mtgrs737 posted this 24 May 2010

The Lee Carbide Factory Crimp seater die does not always work with cast bullets as it may size the oversized bullet down inside the case. You can use it to remove any low bulges in the case before full length resizing the empty case using the Lee bulge buster kit. For my LCP I use the Lee 356-102-1R bullet over 2.7 grs. of Bullseye. I size this bullet .357” and lube with NRA 50/50 lube. I have loaded and shot up to 3.0 grs. of Bullseye with this bullet but felt that the 2.7 gr. load was more pleasant to shoot high quanites for practice. No leading was incurred with this load and it fed with 100% reliablilty. The nicest thing is that the Lee mould is very reasonably priced. My LCP chamber will accept a .377” pin gauge at the chambers forward edge. I do think that the chamber is slightly tappered as the pin gauge will rock a little at the rear of the chamber. I would be happy to send you some samples of this bullet if you would like to try some. PM me to let me know.

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NITROTRIP posted this 21 May 2010

HI All,

I have not forgot about this post I started. I am busy with 4 different bullets, 3 were sent to me to try from a very great guy from here that is the best. When my wife gets to shoot with me we will start a bunch of testing and practice. I am also doing some die mods so correct cast bullets will load properly and will line that out also. Die dementions of the ones I have seem to have no regard for loading cast bullets. The seating die is crushing the loaded case and sizeing the bullet down to .353 when backing the finished round out of the die. My barrel slugged .355. Now I have SAMMI chamber size question for anyone that can find the info? This is a early Ruger LCP, a very early one. I used a pin gauge and the chamber is .3805 factory ammo mikes .371 My carbide die sizes the case to .368 The expander size is .369 before the taper starts. There is no way to stuff a soft low psi .356 “I am the right size to not lead” bullet in that case. Now, I opened the mouth of the seater die from .374 to .376 Did not use the sizer, just flaired a fired case and primed, 2gr WW231, 124gr Lyman 358242 8bhn lubed with thinned LLA. Seated length .990. Loaded case dia. .377 at base of bullet. Double checked my case to chamber dia and had .004 with the barrel out of the pistol. I loaded 3 and went to test, thinking these will never feed. Hand worked the slide, OK smooth. Fired the 3. 1/2 the recoil of the factory stuff. Clean case outside no gas leak, and same as installed, round primer edges. So I loaded up 50 more and shot them for function. Perfect. Shot them into an old stump so no group test. NO lead at all. The throat is very rough and will copper smear after 20 factory rds to the point that I am worried about over psi. I forgot to mention I have fired 300rds of 6 types of factory hollow point and hardball and mixed them up in the same mag and not 1 malfunction. But every thing cast leaded bad untill I loaded unsized. But with 4 different cast bullets still no fail to feed and fire. So I am going to modify this die set for cast only. But I need to know max chamber size first. Now if Ruger replaces the barrel with a smooth throat I hope I don't loose this feed everything pistol. If the chamber is at max dia I will smooth the throat myself as I am a master grade machinist and not worried about doing it. My brother is comeing down for the big weekend and he just got himself one a few days ago. OK sorry his wife one, as she seen it and now it is hers. Was his for all if 40min. But we will compare the 2 side by side. And let you know how it goes and what we come up with for our wifes to practice with. And the die mods. They are new LEE carbide. I think they will work perfect with copper but I have no reason to load them. Speer gold dot or fed self def only for protection for them legal reasons.

Thank You All, and have a nice weekend, Rick

Edit--The cast loads useing all dies per instructions with start to med powder charge gas leaked/slightly blackened the outside of the case. But not with the under min charge with the unsized .004 clearance case. They were perfictly clean. Kinda reminds you of the 45colt complaints, and that the 44wcf shoulder is what seals the case argument. I think this is the .005 extra sloppy chamber with both. I did these same die mods to my 45colt/exactly the same thing. 2 Uberty 1866 Winchesters will not dust the outside the case with cast mouse f@rts or blackpowder. Now sized at the loaded case mouth  to chamber .005 not what the dies did new at .011 with a .002 over groove size 8bhn bullet. They mashed my bullet in the loaded case also. But for some reason did not lead. Sorry for the book but I ended up with the same fix from 2 different way's. And thought this might help someone.

Thank You Again, Rick

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Ranch Dog posted this 16 May 2010

All these words and I failed to show you the bullet! That's what casters are interested in!

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Ranch Dog posted this 16 May 2010

The above said, the JA-32 is a pleasure to shoot! What a nice pistol!

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Ranch Dog posted this 16 May 2010

$143 out the door with taxes. You might find them for a little less. I live out in the sticks and the closest gun shop is very small but I like to support him. I suspect the pistol could be purchased for $130 or so in some places.

As a pistol gets small there are several consideration especially in light of self defense needs. The JA-380 has two such considerations that effect tactical reloads and Type III malfunctions. Additional time, thought and practice will solve these issues.

<>The magazine does not have a positive, spring pressure release. You must operate the release tang and remove the magazine. <>There isn't a slide lock. Again a bit of thought and practice solves the problem. I rack the slide back, and lock my index finger around it. The pistols aren't plinkers. Due to size and weight, a shooting session can be a bit brutal but I believe, based on my experience, they will get the job done!

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tturner53 posted this 16 May 2010

WOW. This is getting good. A whole new thing to play with for me. I'll be watching this thread for updates. RD, about how much was the JA 380?

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Ranch Dog posted this 16 May 2010

I'm a huge Lee fan but do not use the Carbide factory crimp die as the final step. The carbide sizing ring in the base of that die can and will alter the cartridge when using over-sized bullets for caliber. Instead, I bought additional bullet seating die barrels and use them specifically as crimp dies.

I also shoot three pistol cartridges in my Marlin rifles: 41 Mag, 44 Mag, and 45 Colt and special ordered Collet type Factory Crimp Dies to avoid the case sizing associated with the carbine FCD.

In that I will buy anything new from Lee, I bought the Bulge Buster but it is not needed if you load exclusively with Lee dies and shellholders as there is die to shellholder contact in the forming stage.

From the Lee Bulge Buster instructions: If you are using Lee carbide reloading dies, you likely will need to process cases during the first reloading only. Lee sizing dies have a special contour grind that usually prevents the objectionable base bulge that commonly occur on ordinary carbide dies.

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Ranch Dog posted this 16 May 2010

Interesting thread! Slowly and surely I started working on some cast bullet designs for my pistols. This eventually led me to the 380 Auto. My initial work started with the 9mm Luger. After a never ending wait for an aftermarket non-polygonal barrel for my Glock, I bought a new Jimenez Arms JA-Nine sitting in my local gun shop's case. It was cheaper than the aftermarket barrel so I canceled the order and started working on my 9mm design with this pistol.

I've read a lot of “no-good” about this pistol and it's linage (Bryco/Jennings/Jimenez Arms) but don't mind stepping to my own beat and have since determined that those writing negatively about the pistols have no first hand experience with the pistols. My JA-Nine shot cast bullets so well, it ended up costing me more than that aftermarket barrel as I bought the entire JA lineup of pistols except the rimfire model. This led me to the 380 Auto.

Starting with a chamber cast and barrel slugging, I special ordered a Lee mold specifically to fit the sub-compact JA-380. Like all my designs, I used the services of Tom Myers' Precision Chamber Dimension software to visualize and develop the bullet. The method I use is to not dictate bullet weight at the start but rather to fill the step/leade/freebore/throat and then use center of gravity and lift to determine body length which results in weight. In the case of the 380-Auto, the results were a 125-grain bullet.

JA380Yaquiandpouch.jpg&rdquo">http://www.ranchdogmolds.com/Firearms/JA380/Images/M38JA380Yaquiandpouch.jpg&rdquo; />

While waiting for the molds to be cut at Lee, Jimenez Arms released a full size 380 Auto (LC-380) based on the JA-Nine frame and I was able to obtain one of the first pistols with the combat black finish.

TL358125RFGroupSize.gif

What is weird is that the sub-compact JA-380 shot smaller groups that the full frame LC-380. In the larger pistols defense is that this load work is the first shooting that has cycled through it. The sub-compact has has close to 1K rounds pass through it.

http://www.ranchdogmolds.com/Firearms/JALC380/Images/LC380MaxLoadsGroupSize.gif

With such a difference in bullet weight over the standard factory ammo bullet of 90-grains, I wondered during development if the FPS would take to great a hit with the heavier bullet. The most used comparison tool from self defense considerations is the “Hatcher” index. Despite the loss of velocity, the heavier bullet made a small gain.

http://www.ranchdogmolds.com/Firearms/JA380/Images/JA380HatcherIndex.jpg&rdquo; />

There is a price to be paid for shooting a sub compact with a large hand. Here are my “fang” marks after shooting the load work. I maintain a full grip on the stock but that slide still operates!

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