Need Help with a 03a3
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- Last Post 15 May 2010
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Have you slugged your throat? I expect that your quenched bullets are too hard and may also be undersized. Try as-cast, air cooled bullets and see if rounds will chamber and extract freely with bullets sized to .312.
You don't say at what range you shot, but with bullets of proper hardness which fit you should be able to get groups of that size at 200 yards. The charge may be a wee bit on the warm side for best accuracy, but certainly safe pressure-wise. I usually shoot 15 to 15-1/2 grs. of #2400 in an '06 when punching paper.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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were you using wind flags?? That adds to the vertical
My rifle shoots better at .310 than it does at .312. Averages 10 points higher in score matches.
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Beans,
I shoot a lot of 03's and A3's. A 1943 Remington barrel probably has a throat at least 0.313". That should be the size of the first driving band and it should be seated long enough that you can feel resistance as you turn the bolt down.
Three things make wide horizontal spreads in Springfields: bad bedding under the fore end tip, bolt not square with both lugs seating on ignition, and shooter error in working the two stage trigger.
HTH, Ric
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Three thoughts Beans,
The lateral spread makes me suspicious of a bedding issue; specifically the barrel channel touching at some point. I've got an 03A3 that had some problems along those lines but the groups ran NE to SW. For me it was some lateral pressure right out at the fore end tip. Most 03's and A3's that I've been in contact with, worked best with about 5# of upward pressure at the fore end tip. How does the rifle react when you fire full power jacketed loads of good quality. If it's bedding they should exhibit a similar dispersion, though a rapidly heating barrel may change the direction to some extent. Cast bullets don't heat the barrel as fast.
My 2nd thought is that it's a holding problem...allowing the piece to recoil in other than a straight line. You sound experienced so that's not meant as criticism. The slower velocities with lead requires a conscious follow through and good consistent hand positions, while maintaining a natural point of aim.
In hi-power competition, especially as I've grown older, my eyes don't have the precision they once had. I've experimented with several holding sight pictures. With the Marine “hold center mass” (front sight held at the mid point of the bull), I have great elevation control but my windage precision suffers. With a “6 o'clock” hold (pumpkin on a post), windage control is great but elevation suffers. Depending on the day, the lighting conditions, and my eyesight, I vary my hold and make the appropriate elevation change on the sight. (Admittedly, easier with an M1 than with an 03A3.)
Good luck, regards, Rodfac
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My Remington 03-A3 wears a two groove barrel dated 8-44. I just mailed in my targets for Postal Match #3 (group) and the first set of targets for Postal Match #7 (group and score). For Match #3 my load was Lyman 311284 sized .311, lino, 28.0 gr. Varget, Javelina (NRA formula) lube. 5 shot groups (100 yds) were 1.404, 2.079, 2.542 and 1.394.
For Match 7 my load was same lino bullet, 27.0 gr. H4895, same lube. I've chrono'd that one at 1625 fps. 100 yd. score was 96 with 3 (maybe 4)X. 5 rd groups were 1.161, 1.215, 2.177 and 1.622.
Please bear in mind that these are MY measurements; if the official scorer sees them a little differently he's right. Besides, he's got better measuring tools than I have. Also please remember that rifles are like ladies; what works with one usually isn't exactly right for another one - and that's what makes them both so much fun.
And now I've got to get off line and take MY lady, who's stuck with me for over 60 years, out for a birthday dinner.
Wes
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Beans, Two very knowledgeable gentlemen have mentioned forend bedding. Although I am a relative infant in military cast bullet shooting, I did pick up a tip from another Springfield expert: forend contact is specified in the military manuals as being about 5#. Improved accuracy can be realized be upping the pressure to 10#. I did it by inserting a .030 washer under the receiver tang. HTH.
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Three thoughts Beans,
- The lateral spread makes me suspicious of a bedding issue; specifically the barrel channel touching at some point. I've got an 03A3 that had some problems along those lines but the groups ran NE to SW. For me it was some lateral pressure right out at the fore end tip. Most 03's and A3's that I've been in contact with, worked best with about 5# of upward pressure at the fore end tip. How does the rifle react when you fire full power jacketed loads of good quality. If it's bedding they should exhibit a similar dispersion, though a rapidly heating barrel may change the direction to some extent. Cast bullets don't heat the barrel as fast.
Good luck, regards, Rodfac I have not tried jacketed bullets in this rifle. It sound like a good idea. Just to get a base.
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My Remington 03-A3 wears a two groove barrel dated 8-44. I just mailed in my targets for Postal Match #3 (group) and the first set of targets for Postal Match #7 (group and score). For Match #3 my load was Lyman 311284 sized .311, lino, 28.0 gr. Varget, Javelina (NRA formula) lube. 5 shot groups (100 yds) were 1.404, 2.079, 2.542 and 1.394.
For Match 7 my load was same lino bullet, 27.0 gr. H4895, same lube. I've chrono'd that one at 1625 fps. 100 yd. score was 96 with 3 (maybe 4)X. 5 rd groups were 1.161, 1.215, 2.177 and 1.622.
Please bear in mind that these are MY measurements; if the official scorer sees them a little differently he's right. Besides, he's got better measuring tools than I have. Also please remember that rifles are like ladies; what works with one usually isn't exactly right for another one - and that's what makes them both so much fun.
And now I've got to get off line and take MY lady, who's stuck with me for over 60 years, out for a birthday dinner.
Wes Good score on both counts, your targets, your wife :dude:
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UPdate 03 Springfield I hit the range today. :D
I loaded (5) Sierra 168 international bullets (per a suggestion posted here) with a load just grabbed from the reloading manual, 42.2 grains of Varget. @100 yards bench rested I got a 5 shot group of 1.085 X 1.720 including a called flyer. Pulled trigger before I wanted to. The 4 shot group was 1.085 X 1.115 CTC.
Next best group was 20 Grs of 4227, 314299 sized to .313 w/GC. 8 rounds into .947 X .457 two flyers, *which were hard to chamber, opened the 10 shot group up to 2.26 X 1.45.
- I forgot my range rod and was afraid to unchamber the round in case the bullet became stuck in the bore. I was 35 miles from my house. :X
I loaded 60 more rounds of the 4227 load @ 19 Grains and 20 grains ( same bullet, same size) and will go back to the range tomorrow. To try to do it again, If I can then, I have found my load.
What did I change, even though I know to only change one thing at at time. I went whole hog.
Bullet Diameter from .311 to .313*. Put a .009 card beneath the front of the barrel and the stock just behind the bayonet fixture, to increase upward presure, loosened the front and middle stock band.
*I had seated a bullet in the throat until it stopped and measured it, It measured .312.
I made sure the bullet was not touching the lands.
Prior to the range I had checked and the barrel is not hitting the stock from the front of the receiver to the forend.
QUESTION: My shooting buddy just sent me some gages, to measure the bore and the throat. The bore measure 1.5.
The throat/receiver swallows the gage. It is marked for a M-1 not an 03. Can I use the throat gage or are they different? Instructions state to insert gage into throat and observe the measurement where it hits the ejection port.
Is the length of the receiver in that area different on the M-1 and the 03 causing me to get a erroneous reading?
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Update:
The 20 grains of 4227, 314299 Gr G/C bullet sized at .313 with an OAL of 3.02.
The bullet ogive is slightly engraved with the rifleing, which gives me a repeatable groups of less then 1.50 inches @100 yards, sometimes even smaller.
The smallest 10 shot group at the last range was 1.25 X 1.29 the largest was 1.5 X 1.5
I measured or should I say I tried to measure my barrel throat with an erosion gage and it appears I don't have a throat at all. as it swallowed the gage.
I tried several shorter OAL and the groups opened up drastically.
Thanks to everyone for all their advice it helped greatly ( posted and PM's)
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I'm reading this thread with interest because I am about to start testing a rebuilt O3A3. What conditions were the groups shot in? I find it interesting that misreading cross-wind is not mentioned as a possible cause for groups which are strung horizontally.
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The temp was
Wind was at
The wind was watched very closely on all tests. Our range has 15 ft high berms at 3:00 and 9:00 that extend out to 250 yards from the covered concrete shooting benches.
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