ouch!

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  • Last Post 31 December 2009
Don Fischer posted this 19 October 2009

I was up shooting today. About all I'm shooting is my cast 30-06 loads and some 75gr V-Maxs out of my 243. Had the 30-06 and my 38/44 Smith with me and just as I finished, a guy from town showed up. He's getting ready for elk season and having trouble with his rifle and wanted me to shot it. Out comes a 300 WSM and a box of 180gr bullet's. I haven't shot a magnum anything in a lot of years but I decided to go ahead. First shot darn near tore off my shoulder! Second shot I almost caught the scope with my eye. Third shot gave me a headache to go along with my sore shoulder. But we did get it zeroed in and found his problem. What a lousy bedding job! Weatherby Vanguard. Like the recoil lug, it's machined into the reciever. Barrel touches the right side of the barrel channel at the tip then back about two inches is built in up lift. Marks on the barrel there show that the up lift is higher on one side than the other. I wouldn't mind re-bedding it for him but I'm afraid he'd expect me to shoot it again to show him it worked.

Any of you guy's finish up a shooting session with cast stuff and have some one hand you a 300 mag to shoot? WOW!:wow:

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tturner53 posted this 20 October 2009

Don, this time of year you see a lot of guys at the range with new rifles and no clue. It seems to me the less they know the more likely they are to buy a super magnum. In the last couple weeks I've helped two different guys that either just had shoulder surgery or were scheduled to! And they buy magnums! Go figure. One guy insisted on sighting his 7mm mag dead on at 100. I'll help if I can, but I won't shoot for them anymore.

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corerf posted this 22 October 2009

Last trip to the range (last week), guys were talking about the opening of deer season here in So Cal. 2 days before. Range was full...., real full. 20 + lanes running wide open with guys waiting to get in. Every other lane.... some Remington Ultra Mag or WSM.

Good Lord. Friggen guys fired 60 rnds each (minimum and they werent reloaders), they looked like 50 Browning cases necked down and shortened to 30 cal. I laughed my butt off. 60 rounds to sight a rifle. Factory ammo. They were ALL OVER the paper. They had pairs of gloves, Past shoulder pads, pads built into their shirts, their girlfriends maxi-pads over those, all stacked together to protect their sholders. One guy wouldn't sit at the bench, stood bent over to allow his body to move more with the shock.

$40 per box, 3 boxes= $120 for sight in. Holy Crap Batman.

The range is only 200 yds deep. These rifles are designed to kill Elk and Moose at 400 yds, not kill them... break them down like hit the front shoulder and break the spine, hip, knock a hoof off, evicerate and fieldstrip. What the heck.... This is California. Good luck finding a stupid forkie. If you do, you could do as well with a sling shot. 150 lb animal vs..... 458 Super Ultra Duper Whammo Extra Super Short triple belted magnum. I should have gotten an 01 FFL when I was younger to make bookoo $$ on these guys. Whatever happened to actually killing an animal with a good shot, with a 25 or 27 cal or an '06 at 200 yds, without a redmist experience. These guys apparently are going for the Prairie Dog splatter effect on theie harvested animals. Oh yeah, were lead free here, so add $20 per box for Barnes or Nosler E tips on that factory ammo. Sight in went to $200.

Oh yeah, I shoot 357 maximum and 445 Super Mag. I like thumpers, dont get me wrong. Just ones that do a job properly. 300 Win Mag, good old 300 win mag, 7mm Rem mag.... how much more downrange power does one need??? Kill an Elk at 400 yds with a 300 Win Mag, jobs done. 800 lb grizzly, 300 Win Mag. Antelope at 500 yds, 7mm Rem Mag. kill virtually ANY African game with either. Even the Africa guns don't whallop like these new magnums. They kill by other means.

Good Times at the range lately.

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tturner53 posted this 22 October 2009

I know what you mean. Just try to think of them as voters, we need 'em, especially here in the Golden State. Look for the 300 Win mag to make a big comeback, soon. I've read the Army is going big with it as a primary sniper round. The only magnum rifle I've ever owned is a 7mm Rem. Never have hunted with it, just played around trying an old Lyman bullet with IMR5010, nothing great, but real fun and cheap.   PS Deer season is a brass farmer's paradise.

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JetMech posted this 22 October 2009

tturner53 wrote: PS Deer season is a brass farmer's paradise. Unfortunately, I have no use for the majority of cases left behind. No one wants to shoot  a 100 year old cartridge (30-06), 'cause it just won't kill those deer any more, haven't you heard? .>So I have a box full of Super Ultra Duper Whammo Extra Super Short triple belted magnum cases, that the only use I have for is scrap to trade for lead at the local scrap metal dealer.

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Don Fischer posted this 22 October 2009

From everythiong I read, everyone want's to be ready for that once in a lifetine shot two minutes befor the end of shooting hours on the last day of the season! I'm not sure you could get Barnes or Nosler e tips that cheap. The guy I was helping had regular wimchester stuff and they were $43 a box. He was elated that he got a discount and only paid #37 a box! I didn't tell him what I'd paid.

Weather turned nice again today so going back up and retrieve my teeth and cronograph some cast loads and some 243 coyote loads.

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mcskipper posted this 24 October 2009

Same story here in Wisconsin.

We open our range to the public a few weeks before the deer gun opening. It's amazing the number of guys that use a 30-06 150 SP's up in a tree. After all you might get a 20 yard shot! The 30-30's all go to the kids.

I use a 35 Whelen pistol w/ 280 Gr. RNGC, cast of course. A 7mm-08 pistol was just added so if I can get it shooting good w/ cast I'll use it a day or two.

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corerf posted this 25 October 2009

I sold a Weatherby in full trim, 7mm WBY magnum with the original oval scope. It was beautiful. I worked for an attorney, he chatted me up for a while and later sadi if I did a good job, I could pick from a few guns as thanks. I did a good job, not becuase of guns, just because thats what I do. He had/s parkinsons pretty good. So I walk in the door and he has an arsenal laid out. Winchester pump 12ga, WBY 7mm (gorgeous), 1968 Mod 70 in 30-06, 20 inch barrel, 300 Win mag on belgian 98 mauser action, from mid 1960's. I was given all of them, and later a Mod 10T S & W. So the story goes like this. I go deer hunting and only have one scoped rifle, the Weatherby. I ddint read the barrel correct, it was a WBY 7 MAG, nor Rem 7 MAg. Big difference. So I sighted in in with Rem mag ammo, and subsequently fireformed Weatherby mag cases. No wonder why they were hard to chamber--- DUUHHH. It would shoot 300 yds but groupd about 3 inch at 100. I said “rich piece o' crap, Weatherbys suck". So I carried it and left without a deer. Be advised, I got “Scope Nose” from the friggen rifle, NO EYE relief at all. Bled like a stuck pig, embarrasment was worse yet. I traded the shoulder buster for $1100 cash and built my 22-250. I sold the Win Pump, then like an idiot, sold the Mod 70, then bought a 770 cause I let go a mean shooter (Mod 70)-----STUPID!). I did bless a Pastor of mine with the Mod 70. He has a great shooter now. Kept only the 300 Win mag. Fired 2 boxes thru it. What a butt kicker, and I like thumpers. My dad said I was foolish for dumping the 7mm WBY mag as it was the ultimate antelope gun. Well I can kill with a 6mm at 400 yds, so why get beat all to hell for a belted mag?? My dads big rifle is the 308 Norma Mag....... Talk about shoulder breaker. It puts the 300 Win Mag to shame. I have yet to fire it in 40 yrs of life. No need to. Dunno what his true reason for an FN mauser based 308 Norma. MOOSE???? Griz??? My mom barely let him use the toilet much less HUNT.. Sheesh.

I hate the 300 mag (stock weighs about 3 ounces and provides NO pain relief), but its a sweet belgian mauser, rust blued, etc. One day I might rebarrel it to something useful. Use the 300 barrel as a crowbar, it will hurt me less.

I love the '06 and 30-30. The '06 can do anything you want it to, anything!

If I could just hold a 30-06 in a 15 inch pistol barrel, I'd really get excited. Hmmmmmm---

I was at the gun shop pre-season this year. Bunch of guys walked in and asked for recommendations for deer. “Is the 270 better than 7mm, what about the Ultramags?” Dealer asked “where are you hunting??” They replied, here in the local mountains (Angeles National Forest). He chuckled and handed them a 30-30 and said you'll do just fine with this. At least he was honest.

Dollar Bill: I never thought of trading brass scrap for WW scrap.... I like it. Gonna try on Monday. My sons like picking up brass, I just have to watch they don't pick up the wrong brass in the wrong lane. At 7 and 10, they can't quite figure out how to read a shooter to know if they are going to police up their brass or not.

mcskipper, please tell us about the Whelen pistol. Loads, barrel, action. Thats a handful. I have a 445 SM and it's a pansy compared to an '06 necked UP. Encore frame??

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mcskipper posted this 25 October 2009

I like the big boomers too, (Built my own 50 BMG.) but you guys know that you don't need all that power to bring home more game. In my humble way of thinking 300 LB FT in fat calibers (44 ect.) 600 LB FT in the 30 cals & smaller on the animal will a very nice job. (Speaking deer sized) and Cast Bullets.

We all have done a STUPID! It's just a matter of time before we figure out we did it.

The 35 whelen is a Magnum Research canon breach 14” tube. I picked up a 35 Rem & rechambered it. 280 Gr. RNGC Lyman. Accurate 2460  46.0 Gr. w/ filler & crimp.

I have both a TC & Encore w/ all kinds of tubes but I fall head over heals for the Lone Eagle after I got my first one years ago. It's much better balanced, very nice on the hand in the big boomers. the gun has gone through name changes over the years. SSP91 or newer have ejectors, great for hunting. The SSP86 has a case lifter. O.K. for target work only.

There are seven of them that live w/ me now. 22 Hornet 357 Mag. 44 Mag. 7mm-08 30-30 30-06 35 Whelen

I did make a big boo-boo some time back. I had the 22 Hornet & 30-06 out @ the range. I was shooting the 22 Hornet first then switched to the 06. Set the first one off, DAMN gun jumped out of my hand & hit my on the head. It was just telling me DUMMY I'm an 06 hang on to me!!!!!!!!!!

I'm retired now so after sailing season all I have to do is dream up loads to try and reloading tools to build. That is why the name mcskipper. An MC is a kind of racing scow. O.K. in my day, but time and tides have passed me by. No more open sights for me now!

Did a other article for The Fouling Shot this time on a 35-30 Win. May be in in a few months. That was fun conversion to do.

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chris45 posted this 30 October 2009

Hi Don,

Your post reminds me of shooting my first belted magnum rifle, and how unpleasent it was, and how rewarding it turned out to be.

I was chewing the fat with my next door neighbor, he is a retired Pa. State trooper, and i was taking about a upcoming  cast bullet silohuette match in Ridgway Pa.

Well the subject of rifle scopes came up, and I told him I had just bought a redfield 4-12 power scope that was on sale at the local gun shop, and thought the cross hairs were a bit thick for shooting silohuette.

He went inside and fetched out his 7mm mag rifle with a 6.5 - 20 leupold scope, with fine cross hairs and a target dot recticle.  I said thats the type scope most guys in this game shoot with, but they were a bit to pricey for me.

When I showed him my scope, he liked it, and said those are the type cross hairs he needs to hunt with, and that the fine cross hairs on the leupold were to thin for hunting deer in the dim woodlots.

Well being the good neighbor I am, I opted a trade...he thought for a moment, and concluded if I were to mount the scope on his rife and sight it in, he would swap.

Off to the local gun shop I went to buy a box of 7mm mags, quickly mounted the redfield scope on his rifle, and off to the range.

I have concluded, that if one had a cold while shooting this gun, it would knock all the snot out of you.

After getting the thing on paper, and zeroing it in at 100 yds, about a inch high, I had enough...too much rifle for me, ....but I did get a nice scope out of the deal, and sent the leupold back to the factory for a set of target knobs to be installed.

After a summer of cast bullet shooting out of my 308, the 7mm mag sure did wake me up.

 

Happy Trails

Chris  

 

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BruceV posted this 30 October 2009

The largest calibered rifle I ever zeroed was a post-64 M-70 in .458 Winchester Magnum. The owner wanted the iron sights checked for zero at 100 yds. With the standard 500 gr. FMJ load, it shot just fine. I have no idea what he planned to use it on as the deer in Ga. usually don't run much over 180 lbs. Of course he might have been planning to run down to Texas and shoot some of the big longhorn cattle that run wild and free. Or maybe he just wanted to be ready if and when Zombies appear on the horizon. Personally I have hunted mostly hogs and deer in Louisiana and Georgia. I have always figured that if a man wanted to shoot a heavy magnum that was his business. I have found a .30-06 loaded with good 150 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips to be extremely effective at any of the distances at which I expect to see and shoot game. I shoot a plain Jane Rem. 700 LH BDL with a Pachmeyer Decelerator recoil pad and a old steel tube Weaver 3x scope. The iron sights and scope are zeroed at 100 yds. Using the scope as zeroed, I can stay under 3 inches at 200 yds. shooting from field positions. If I ever get a chance to target it at 300 yds., I'll just look to see where the group forms and then sight in accordingly. Mostly in my area, a shot at deer of more than 150 yds. is unusual. Carefully paced, my longest shot came out at 147 long steps. Incidentally, that shot was made with a rifle I set up for vintage military rifle matches... a Smith-Corona 03-A3 in (you know what's coming) .30-06. The buck had 8 points, weighed a little over 170 lbs. and fell to a 150 gr. Winchester pointed soft point that entered just in front of the left hip and exited out the right front shoulder. He dropped like he'd been struck with a lightening bolt from Zeus! I don't think more power would have done a better job. But I like the idea of using enough gun to get the job done. JMHO. Sincerely. BruceV.

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tturner53 posted this 30 October 2009

One upside of having a big belted magnum for us cast bullet shooters is the possibility to use up stocks of very slow powder like IMR5010 or WC860/WC870. A lot of us bought 8 .lb jugs of this surplus powder way back, although I see it's still available, just not quite as cheap. Being one who can't resist a bargain, I bought several jugs from Pat's Video Corner years ago. Using data provided with the powder you can get useful loads with cast bullets and really be shooting cheap. Load data for 30-06 shows a 200 gr. Sierra HP going 2174 fps with 61 gr. IMR5010, that's a max load. A .460 Weatherby will push a 510 gr. Winchester soft point 1932 fps with 125 gr. of W860, also a max load. You just adjust the jacketed bullet data for a cast bullet of similar weight. There's lots of magnums in between those two examples that will do well with cast bullets and cheap slow powder. Like I said, that's about all I use my 7mm Rem. for, fun cheap shooting.   EDIT: I might mention what I mean by cheap shooting. These powders were selling for $14 for an 8 .lb jug when I stocked up, so you can see why I have an interest in using real slow powders. I may not get match accuracy with them, but then again who knows? It's fun to play with different loads, something that's not already perfected by someone else.

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galenaholic posted this 22 November 2009

Last yer there was a fellow at the range trying to sight in his new .300 WSM. He'd never even shot a rifle before and had no idea what to do. He was asking shooters for help and everyboby was ignoring him. He came to me jst as I was about finished packing up to go home so I said what the hell and unpacked my stuff. I told him I'd do all the preliminary stuff but the final shooting was his to do. Now I shoot some pretty hard kicking rifles anyway so his  WSM was not all that bad. After getting where I felt it should be I insructed him in how to shoot from the bench and we did the tweaking to get him on the mark. He did just fine for a newbie getting ready for his first deer hunt. FWIW, he was about 22 years old and going to the local university. Wait'll that bunch of libs find out he owns one of those nasty old guns.  Guess tey can't ruin everyone.

Paul B.

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tturner53 posted this 22 November 2009

Paul, good on ya! You just made a convert to our side, I bet he'll remember you. We all need to help the greenhorns and build our ranks. Imagine the clout we'd have if each NRA member got just one new person to sign up?

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1Shirt posted this 24 November 2009

Have 19 once fired 300 Win brass fired in a 300 Weatherby, and found in a range trash can. Sort of look like overgrown Mashburn Bee's. Some clerks at Wallyworld don't know the difference and it is obvious that the shooter did'nt either. Have a 7Rem. that seldom gets shot, even tho it is a very accurate rifle. What does get shot is a 77 Ruger in 7x57, that has taken a number of deer, 2 elk, and 10 head of African Plains game. It was good enough for Elnore O'Connor, and is good enough for me. If I wasn't shooting it for deer, would be taking my 77Rug. in 243. Do have a 375H&H, but that is a totaly different proposition and for specialized use (but it shoots cast like a million bucks). Old yankee saying goes something like “the Lord protects kid,drunks and fools", and we have seen a lot of fools on the range with bad cases of Weatherbyitis.
1Shirt!

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mike morrison posted this 24 November 2009

1 shirt, would you share your cast load for the 375 h&h. i have a 375 ruger and am looking for info to use in it. thanks, mike

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galenaholic posted this 31 December 2009

Mike, not First Shirt but my pet cast bulletload for the .375 H&H is 49.0 gr. of either IMR or H-4895 with a one grain tuft of dacron. Bullet is the RCBS #37-250-FN which weighs 270 gr. in my alloy. Dunno the velocity but it does 1.5” from my Ruger #1 in .375 H&H from the bench. Recoils is in the 30-06 range.

Paul B.

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mike morrison posted this 31 December 2009

thanks paul b. this 375 ruger (caliber not gun) has given me fits. i have tried 50.0 imr 4895 also 50.0 imr 4350. the 4350 did a little better i think. i am having bbl leading and so the test is not good on the two. i found what you did as to recoil. i had veral make a mould for the rifle and believe the bore is not straight. has a tight spot at the muzzle and is leading 5-6in beforea the muzzle. i have ordered a fire lap kit from veral and hope this resolves this problem. then back to finding a load that will shoot. my accuracy is terrable and hope the lap will do the trick. my bullet weighs 269gr sized lubed w/gascheck. guess i got a little off subject. so this ought to put it back. 77.0gr h-380 and a 270ge hornady bullet will make for an ouch. yes i did shoot 50 of those. they did not group either. maybe that started a flinch i have not got past. anyway thanks for the info. mike

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