Hi Guys! I have been trying real hard, but it aint happening the way I want. So let me explain what I am doing so you guys can get me straight. I am trying to use a lyman 358495, 4 cavity. At first, and it still might be a problem, I thought the temp was too low. Bullets were not forming smoothly. always deforming on the head. Then by raising the temp I got them to be smooth and fill out a little better, but the edges and lube grooves are not sharp. The flats are not real flat! I tried a single cavity 454424, they look alittle better but lube grooves and flats are not as sharp as the mold. I guess you would call it NOT FILLING OUT ALL THE WAY! How long should I be waitting before I open the mold. (use the 1 mississippi count). And do you guys drop onto a soft towel, or into water. I'm sooooooooo confused! Please give me your best guess, I'M ALL EARS!!!!!!!!!! Thanks, Gene
Need A Little Help!
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- Last Post 04 September 2009
Your mold is to cold. And don't wait to open the mold. As soon as the sprue is soilid cut it and drop it. I use an old electric skillet cranked all the way up to keep my molds hot and ready to go. Some guys dunk their molds. I don't as it makes a mess. I would also take a toothe brush and some brake cleaner if there is any kind of oil/lube in the mold. jeff
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I agree that you don't have the mould and/or alloy hot enough. Are you using a ladle or a bottom pour? If you are using a ladle; what kind?
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Gene try degreasing the mold blocks.
Stephen Perry
Angeles BR:fire
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Have abit more time to explain. The 4C will take a fair bit to heat up. Run about 4-6 passes through it, real quick. Then on 7 or 8 let is set a little longer between. BTW, these are ALL culls. You want to get the mould HOT top to bottom. Heat rises, but the sprue plate swinging to one side will cool it as both surfaces are exposed. The lead will solidify quicker than you think. Only time I ever saw a person open the mold and it slumped was when he dunked it in the pot and left it to long. The sprue plate being to cold, will and can hurt your end results as much as a to cool mould. I cast at around 725 if that helps you any. Depending on what mould or moulds I am using i can run two at a time once things get up to temp. Fill one, set it down. Grab the other and fill. Set it down. Pick up the first one and cut the sprues and drop. Refill and so forth. This is only after the moulds are up to a good temp. This is only for casual shooting. Serious stuff I go at a more steady rate with one mould. jeff
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I agree with JSH, maybe when you get a bit more experienced and get the gist of how your molds like to be cast I would stick with one multi cavity mold.
A trick of the trade for you. If you dip just the corner of the mold into the melt, not far enough to cover the seam where the mold halfs come together, you can effectively bring a mold up closer to operating temperature in a short amount of time.
Another trick, get a can of brakecleaner, the kind that smells like flamable solvent to degrease your mold.
Use a good sprue plate lube like Rapine or Bullshop.
A little known trick that actually works for sticking bullets in cavities is to take a q tip and apply a lite coating of Kano Kroil to the cavities, after a few pours your bullets will drop out with ease.
I am sure that trick will draw a good amount of criticism to which I will say this. I ladle cast commercially, 3000-5000 bullets a day, dont knock it unless you try it!
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What alloy are you using, Gene. If straight wheel weights, adding 2% tin will help fill-out. Other than that, as these guys have said, a clean mold, hot enough melt, consistant tempo lead to good bullets. I drop them on a towel, unless I need then hard. Good luck and lets us know how you progress.
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OK, I want to thank you all for the help! I am going to start over, first with cleaning the mold good. letting the mold get hotter (which I think is the real problem), and hold it longer before dropping. I can't sparker up until saturday, but I will let you guys know the results. Thanks Again, Gene
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One more thing about getting good bullets. If you have a new mold it will take about 100 casts or more to break it in. I have cleaned new molds until I'm blue in the face, but It still takes that break in time.
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you might want to try changing how you fill your mold too. some molds like the lead shot directly in the cavity, most of my 4 cavs though like it when i just put it under the spout and fill them up while dragging the mold under the stream with one long sprue to go back into the pot. i/you need to develop a feel for when to break the sprue. i wear a glove and after about the first 3 pours i break the sprue cutter open by hand,and run the mold at a steady pace from there. i occasionally have to wipe the mold across a damp cold rag to moniter temps. a bit of tin helps immensely with boolits that have sharp edges and square lube grooves. 1% tin and alloy temp about 725 works pretty well in the 4 cavs and a temp of about 750 works in the 2 cavs same damp rag handy. if it seems the mold is a bit cold i use the rag to cool the sprues after they solidify and draw in the puddle, to speed things up a bit.
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3-5,000 bullets a day with a ladle!? Wow. That's a lot of work. I didn't know you sold bullets, but then I miss a lot. What do you have? My guess is you already have 'em sold and cast for a certain group of shooters, not the general public.But, if you have a list I'd like to know. Among other things I'm in the market for a .303 bullet in the .320 range. If I can't find a hundred or so from a commercial caster than I'll just have to wait 'til I get my mold money from Obama!:shock: Considering how my Lee .309 molds all cast small(useless) I'm thinking an 8mm mold from them might just work in my oversize .303.:taz:tt
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Great info! I just stepped up to Lyman steel molds and have been having a bit of trouble also. I hope this helps Gene.Those Lee molds just work, but these take some more finesse. I got a 9mm Devestator and 314299, both new and I can't wait for some good bullets using the tips here! I also bought a Lyman ladle because I thought the pour was affecting my bases,;,,--it was:0: and a few other things. You gotta' keep those steel molds REAL hot!:0:
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hold it longer before dropping
My comment above regarding, holding it for a bit longer. Was intended to mean to leave the alloy in the blocks a whiles, so as the mould would absob as much heat as possible. Thus the culls. Make sure and leave a generous sprue as this will help initial heat up also.
As to break in on a new mold. In my findings the best thing to use after a good cleaning and inspection is soot from an actelyne torch, no oxygen just gas. Brake cleaner or carburator cleaner seems to get all of the oils out of most molds, alum. or iron.
Make sure you have fluxed and stirred your alloy real good. Scrap the bottom and sides of the pot real well.
All of the square edges on the driving bands of the WC way have issues in filling outlike a louverin style. One thing that may help. Don't shoot the lead staright into the sprue hole. Hit the side of the sprue at the taper and make it swirl into the blocks. This has helped me at times on some particular designs.
Are you using a bottom pour or a ladle?
I saw no mention but just assumed you were using a bottom pour?
If a bottom pour. From the spout to the sprue plate, about 1/2"-3/8” is pretty good clearance. Much farther and you stand to loose some heat.
I prefer to stand and cast. I used to set and do it but seemed to be harder on my back. Also harder to get up and run for any reason:shock:, with out tripping over the chair. Don't ask. Which ever you prefer make sure you are comfortable, and the pot is at a level you can see under it..
If bullets start looking poorly after casting a pile loook at your pot level. Some moulds like a lot of head presuure or velocity from the stream. I try not to run my 20lb lee pot much under half full. Fresh alloy heats up faster and weights and culls seem to be less in the long run..
jeff
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Just a quick note! Scrounging around all the cool books I have and never read, I found an old hardcover book by George Nonte. This guy is great! He touches in detail every imaginable aspect of loading. He has a section on cast bullets which he calls something like “cause and effect". He states it the same as you guys. He puts alot of emphasis on “not filling out sharp” being do to not enough tin. He recommends 2-3%. I usually have a problem with my eyes if I read for a long time, but it was hard to put this book down. I don't have the book handy right now, but I will post the exact title. I recommend it for all newbies bigtime! you hardcore guys might already know the book! Anyway, I can't thank you guys enough for all the help. I am determined to make good BULLETS! Thanks, Gene
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Gene, keep us up-to-date on how your doing. I am curious about your progress as I am in the same boat. My bullets are getting a bit better but the bases won't fill consistantly. The pour seems to do it,,,,or not. I am having trouble keeping the control I need every time, but when I get it right the base is USUALLY sharp. What are you pouring with? have you noticed the same? maybe try to pay ALOT of attention to your pour technique, including as some have mentioned the pressure formed by the pour. My best results come from a steady, but not too fast stream dropped fromabout .75” to 1” above the sprue-plate. Hope to hear of some progress.
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Gene,
Is it MODERN HANDLOADING by Maj. George C. Nonte, Jr.?
Ric
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For what it's worth; I get better results from holding the mould directly up against the pour spout of my RCBS pot. When I try holding it a little below, the base of the bullet doesn't fill out completely.
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Sometimes, base fill=out problems are caused by the sprue plate being too tight, as that's where air vents from the base cavity. Check that the sprue plate falls open of it's own weight when the mold is up to temperature. If it doesn't, that could be part of the problem.
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Ric, Thats the book! Everything that has been said on this forum can be found to some extent in that book. What Bill just said about the sprue plate I read last night in that book. I look forward to getting the pot going just so I can try all this new info. I feel pretty good about cleaning the mold again, adding some tin, and getting the temp up. Without you guys, I could see the learning curve causing alot of people to “blow it off", and just buy bullets. You definitely have to have some patience and understanding to know that you can make great bullets.
Got to get back to work. Talk to you guys soon, Gene
That book is great!
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also you might need to give the bases a bit more venting a fine stoning along the edges at a 45* angle on the top corners of the mold blocks will help too. i usually don't mess with the sprue plate unless i am getting a flare over the mold top,under the cutter but i try to run on the edge of getting them.
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:coffee
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