Measuring 700X

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  • Last Post 11 December 2009
CB posted this 21 August 2009

I am loading with light (4.5 grains) of 700X and neither my Redding with pistol drum or a Lee seems to handle it well.

I really don't want to weigh charges but a series of thirty drops have extreme spreads of from 10 to 25 percent of the average charge. About two thirds are within 5%.

Both measures do well with most powders with ESs of less than 2% and often less than 1%.

I have never used 700X.

Is it usually that hard to meter?

Would bullseye, which I also haven't used for thirty years, measure more consistently?

John

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CB posted this 21 August 2009

John

I use either a Lyman 55 or Lil Dandy. Prefer to use my Lil Dandy if you have the correct rotor. Of coarse my Star loader works like a champ with a powder like 700x.

Stephen Perry

Angeles BR:fire

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hunterspistol posted this 21 August 2009

      You might try my method, put the scale pan under the powder measure, and drop the charge. Then, set it on the scale and trickle the last bit in.  It stops all the inconsistency you get from loading directly off the powder measure.  I have a Redding Model 3 and still do it this way, even with the micrometer. 

     I don't know if 700X is hard to meter, I have an unopened container of it.  I do know that Bullseye, one of the powders I'm using, is very fine and black. Almost seems greasy, it's so fine.

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RicinYakima posted this 21 August 2009

John,

Yes, 700X is a miserable powder to meter. As you know, it is a flaked double-based shotgun powder. The problem is that the flakes are the thinest of all the DuPont powders. Since I have about 8 1/2 pounds more of it to use up, I've played with it quite a bit. It is so thin that it gets caught between a rotating drum and the body of the measure. I bought a Lee Perfect powder measure and it doesn't do better than any of the others; best is an old model Redding that has springs and ball bearings in the drum that keep it tight against the housing. If you find an answer let me know!!!

Ric

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CB posted this 21 August 2009

John

To be honest if you are not happy dribbling 700x into a cartridge case trade it for say Unique. Also 700x makes a great shotshell powder. Personally I have loaded kegs of 700x in Trap loads.

Stephen Perry

Angeles BR:fire

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RicinYakima posted this 21 August 2009

Stephen, You're right; with a shotgun loader there is so much mechanical advantage from the linkage, you will never feel the difference. The little hand operated powder measures, though, have so little leverage, you can even feel a grain of Bullseye if it gets caught behind the rotor. Ric

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CB posted this 23 August 2009

Thanks for all the comments. Looks like I am stuck with putting a lot of miles on a powder trickler that I have had for twenty years but never used. I came into a supply of 700X and of course being a cast bullet shooter am too cheap to throw it away and buy something else. Especially since is is working so well for low velocity loads in one of my rifles.

John

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CB posted this 23 August 2009

Alex

Why not try a set of Lee scoops with your 700x. I have a set and have tried them. I don't see much difference between using my scoops and using my Belding & Mull thrower same principle.

Stephen Perry

Angeles BR:fire

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Al_Sway posted this 26 August 2009

I have loaded lots of 700-X in pistol cases, including .32 S&W Long and .38 Special. While you have observed a large variation, I have had nothing but 10 ring success with my 700-X loads. Why not try them and see how they shoot? In the end, is it important if there is a variation in powder weight as long as they are safe, and accurate?

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CB posted this 26 August 2009

Al

How big is your 10 ring. Welcome.

Stephen Perry

Angeles BR:fire

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Ed Harris posted this 26 August 2009

For the flake shotshell powders try to find one of the old Hollywood measures. Otherwise I would try to use it up in a cartridge which will enable larger volumentric charges which measure with acceptable uniformity using whatever standard measure you have. About 11-12 grains of 700-X with a standard weight, plainbased bullet in the .45-70 or .375 H&H comes to mind.

It took me years to shoot up and get rid of all the big flake shotshell and pistol powders I had accumulated over the years. While I would not turn down a keg which fell off the pickle wagon I wouldn't purchase new powder of this type out of choice anymore.

I've settled on either using Bullseye or RL-15 for everything I load. That concept has been working well for me. I just bought two more 8 lb. caddies of Bullseye for TEOTWAWKI.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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NoDakJak posted this 03 October 2009

Good morning Ed. I must admit that your powder choice for TEOWAWKI is interesting. It is not the same powders that I have chosen but the burn rates are similar. Would you care to comment further on your choices. My choice is ZIP or 231 interchangleably. My ideal rifle powder would be Varget but either 4895 or 3031 would be totally acceptable. I have never used RL-15 at this time. Is there something that I am missing? Incidentally, if you care to try a totally evil measuring flake powder just give Nitro 1000 a test. I purchased two pounds of it at a very good price and believe that it will last my lifetime and then some. Neil

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pmeisel posted this 03 October 2009

I sometimes use the Lee scoops in preference to the powder measure... particularly with ball powders that don't work well in my lee measure....

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blindeye posted this 19 October 2009

I've used a good bit of 700x in 3.5gr charges for 32/20 and 38spl. I've found it to throw very consistently in the older push-to-throw Dillon and using a Lyman55. I've never used the smallest slide bar on the 55, prefering a narrower,deeper cavity so that the area of the charge getting 'cutoff' is smaller. With larger charges I don't use either of the screw adjustable slides except for the last little bit of fine tuning. My small chamber Uniflo starts throwing accurately at about 5grs with 700x. Hope that helps.

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Don Fischer posted this 19 October 2009

In the past I used a lot of 700X in 38's and threw it from an RCBS measure but, I'd set the chg a bit low and plan on trickling. Then if it was throwing constent for ten or so rounds, I'd just drop it in the case and check every ten or so loads with the scale.

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Dale53 posted this 20 October 2009

More years ago than I care to remember, I received a call from a business acquaintance who was having problems with 700x in his MEC shotgun loader. He was getting squib loads and intermittent heavy loads (determined by sound of the report and recoil).

I checked his set up out and determined that the “Jim's Powder Baffle” he was using would “bridge” dropping just a partial charge. I was able to demonstrate it's failings. We removed powder baffle and the MEC, as issued, worked well.

A commercial loader told me there was a warning out amongst the trade that 700X was a dangerous powder to use in an auto loader reloading machine. This intrigued me as I could see little reason upon visual examination why this would be so (I didn't dispute the information, just wanted to know why).

So, I put the powder under high magnification. The little round flakes had scalloped edges like tiny doilies (you know, what grandmother used under the flower vases on the end tables). I theorized that the “edges” grabbed each other and bridged in a measure causing heavy and light charges.

I was shooting in an indoor league and the question came up. I told my findings to the group and one of them Pooh-Poohed my findings. He stated he had used it for hundreds of loads without a problem in his 1911 .45 ACP. The very next relay he had a bullet stuck in his barrel. Fortunately, he did not shoot a follow up shot.

Note: he immediately reassessed his position:uhuhuh:.

It is kind of a shame because it is clean burning and can work well if it would measure well. I solved the problem to my satisfaction, I relegated it to shotgun use WITHOUT a powder baffle.

I use progressive presses to load most of my handgun loads (I have two Dillon 550B's) and I will simply not use a powder that doesn't measure well. There are too many good powders that DO measure well to worry about those that do not.

Dale53

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JetMech posted this 20 October 2009

John,

The Lee Dipper method has some merit. But rather than use Lee dippers, for light charges that don't meter well, I use a small pistol case, like a 9mm. It doesn't take long to trim it down so that it holds the exact charge you need. What I do is get it close with the case trimmer, then solder or epoxy it to a piece of coat hanger wire. Pour the powder into a soup can, dip the “dipper” in the powder, tap it twice on the side of the can and weigh the charge. A little work with a flat file and soon you have a custom dipper that will throw very consistant charges for you. The other end of the coat hanger can be bent to form a comfortable handle. Then a piece of masking take near the handle to mark what the dipper was made for. I have 5 or 6 that I've used for years. Accurate, easy to use, no set-up time after it's made, and best of all, it;'s free.

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cityboy posted this 20 October 2009

I prefer to set the powder measure to throw a light charge and then use a trickler to bring the charge up to weight. I have found that a small spoon works just as well as a trickler and is a lot cheaper.

Jim

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WILDCATT posted this 11 December 2009

I have 19 lb off 700X should I throw it.seems I have used that brand since it came out

I use 2.8 in 38 and 3.6 in 45 acp and used it for 20 odd ys in compitition.I am a fair but not great shot. they stay in 9 ring and better.I used a Potter at first,then a lyman but since lee have use a lee 1000 and lee auto disc measure.I set it once and never checked it again.right now I am setting up adouble disc with new measure.31 gr 2520

just shot one to check and it functioned the action.the shell is fine.may drop it one or two gr as I only want it to dump next to me. then I will se how accurate.:coffee

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