I just received my new 225415 Lyman mold. I need a load for the 222 Remington that will give me 22 rimfife velocities. My old Lyman data starts out at to high of a velocity.
Looking for 900 to tops of 1200 fps. for squirrel hunting with my new old 700 Remington squirrel rifle. Flashman
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Flash
Don't know how old your manuals are but my 1958 Handbook of Cast Bullets lists 4.0 grn of Unique with 225415 as a light load for squirrel.. The load at 50 yd gave the guy 3/4” groups. Doesn't say how many shots the groups were but even if 3 shots I feel that is adequate for squirrel. I load my 225415 in my .222 with 6.0 grn of Unique.
Stephen Perry
Angeles BR:fire
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Anyone ever have any luck shooting them without the gas check? Or some filler instead ? It seems to me that if a 22 rimfire doesn't need a gas check one should be able to find a suitable load for a 222 that shoots good with out a gas check and doesn't lead up the works.
I'm being cheap and lazy. I would just like to just tumble lube and shoot.
Flashman
The best way to kill time is to work it to death: i don't plan on hurtin' it none!
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Flash
I have no more sources to look for a squib for your .222.
I have 500 copies of Rifle & Handloader and I remember light loads in some but my time for loading is worth more than an endless search for you, sorry. So 4.0 grn of Unique from my copy of the 1958 Handbook of Cast Bullets is light with 225415 and gas checks are optional at that low level.
Stephen Perry
Angeles BR:fire
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Flashman, read through these threads if you haven't already.
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Flash
There you go Flash. Ken and George did the field research for you. Ken's 3 references would tell it all for me if I was looking for a low velocity load for cast .222. The type shooting they were doing Pope style showed all the groups not the best. The other gentleman that commented about horizontal dispersion sorry guy that has nothing to do with bullet or load. Nice 10 shot groups and the tumble lube no gas check is the way to go for squirrel shooting.
Stephen Perry
Angeles BR:fire
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Flashman, I'm interested in similar loads for the .223 and am also sometimes cheap and lazy. It's ok to ask all the questions you want, that's a form of research that's allowed here. Good luck with your project, let us know how it goes. Tim
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I cast about 200 bullets from my new mold today. I degreased it with some brake clean real good, heated it up a little, and went to work. It started throwing good bullets after only about 10-15 cycles. It is a joy to use like all my other Lyman molds. Give credit where credit is due.
I cast the bullets of straigt WW's quenching them in ice water. I'll report on how they do.
Thanks for all the info. I can almost smell the squirrel sizzlin' in the pan.
Flashman
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I told you guys I'd report on progress. I'll start with the bullet. Tumble lubes in Lee Liquid alox they whiegh a consistent 52.5 grains give or take a line on my Lyman scale. The Lube grooves are so small that they will fill up with lube if one tumbles them long enough. I consider that a pluss I guess. I didn't wiegh everyone that I loaded but did visually inspect them paying particuler attention to the base. I found very few defects. They are out of round .001 miking .224-.225
The brass - I started with 11 once fired Winchester brass; full lenght resized. My old die in the past had gotten pretty scratched up. I had vigorously polished it to remove the scratches so my brass doesn't get resized as much as normal. They have a “feel” being chambered which has never hurt anything. I trimmed them to 1.695 which was the lenght of the shortest one of the bunch. Remember I said I was cheep so I didn't buy a 22 cal neck expanding die. The expander ball of the sizing die measures .223 so I had to figure out a way to seat the bullet with out shaving lead. I adjusted my 6.5 neck expanding die so that it would just a eeny bit start to bell the neck. I seated the bullet to the crimping groove, crimping them to remove the bell. I measured the neck diameter before and after seating the bullet. Some of the necks gained .001 in diameter; some of them I couldn't measure any difference. In either case I didn't see any shaved lead.
I started with 3.5 grains of Unique. Shooting through a clean lightly oiled barrel at 25 yards the first shot went low. The second a little higher. The next 4 went into a small dime sized group just below the aiming point. The next 2 went 1-2 inches high and 1-2 inches left and right. The last 3 went back into the group. Where did those 2 wild flyers come from ? I had been elevating the muzzle of the rifle to get the powder near the primer. I thought maybe I had forgotten to elevate the rifle.
To eliminate that possibility I reloaded again this time using a 1/2 grain tuft of polyester quilt batting to keep the powder in place. Again shooting through a clean lightly oied barrel to keep things equal I had the same results with the first to shots. A nice group formed then flyers. I'll attach a picture of the those targets. If I can figure out how
To sum it up; the load shows potential to be an excellent squirrel load if I can eliminate the flyers. I'll experiment some more
I might add that the rifle will shoot under an inch often getting dime sized groups at 100 yards with good jacketed bullets so I trust the riflle. It is equiped with a old Leupold m8 6x scope. I never shot the gun much before at 25 yards. Could the scope have that much parrelex ? I'm not sure what parrelex is exactly but I don't figure the scope is adjusted for 25 yards.
i went through all of this with my Model 70 6.5x55 and could shoot squirrels with it but it isn't legal to use anything larger than 22 cal for small game here in Pa. My 6.5 also has a Leupold scope showing no proplem at 25 yards.
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I think your powder charge may be a little too light. I would bump it up to 4- 4 1/2 grains of Unique for the next try. Or try 3 1/2 grains of Bullseye if you have it. I would also try some air cooled bullets instead of the water quenched ones.
Looks like you have a good start though.
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FM thanks for the report, good follow through. I know about those pesky fliers! Keep us posted. I'm working on making up some hard alloy to shoot my .22s, I want to play with high speed loads. I've done water quench but haven't tried heat treat in the last 15 yrs. It sounds like KK is suggesting a softer bullet for what you're doing.
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Flash
I think you are doing just fine. Don't change anything. If you are getting shots outside your main grouping there are several things you can work on. Cleaning your barrel and practicing trigger pull are a few. Make sure you aren't canting the gun once in awhile. This can move shots off at angles from the previous shot. If shooting off sand bags lightly tap your buttstock in the bag before you start a group this settles everything down including you. Shooting for group at any distance is a matter of self control some call it gun control whatever but better shooters have this presence around shooting sitting down or standing up.
I have made and shot many thousands of 225415. Your desire for a squirrel load is straight out of the 'Handbook of Cast Bullets' Lyman 1958. On page 95 for those that have the book Mr Lark achieved 3/4” accuracy at 50 yd using hard lead with 225415 mold using 4 grn of Unique. Flash as to your question about using fillers like Kapok I don't feel such have ever proved of any value. In the days when my Lyman Manuals were written if a guy used a filler he said so. No mention of a filler used by Mr. Lark.
Mr Lark must have been a pretty good shooter. He obviously had good bench techniques and a presence of the wind either using windflags or watching environmental signs such as a local tree or such maybe the sleeve on his own shirt. Me I watch the windflags and the gals dresses if close by.
Flash leave your load alone and practice good bench techniques. I bet you are having trouble controling your trigger also at times as shots 1 and 5 indicate. Mr Miagi always said focus Daniel Son focus.
Stephen Perry
Angeles BR:fire
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Flashman,
Stephen's comments about the importance of bench technique are valid but I don't think you are going to eliminate the kind of fliers you are seeing with better shooting unless you have a world class flinch or are having major problems seeing iron sights. The fliers are out 4 to 8 minutes of angle which is a lot when shooting from a bench. That's not to say that you shouldn't do it as carefully and consistently as possible.
I second KenK comments about softer bullets. I have shot a lot of good squirrel loads out of 222s and 223s but have never had much luck at all with hard bullets.
It is possible to get good results without gas checks but gas checks almost always easier to find a good load for.
John
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I have some tightgroup. Anyone have any experience with it in light loads? I thought it might work instead of say Bullseye. As far as bench technic goes, like I said I reguraly shoot great groups with jacketed rounds at 100 yards without flyers. I ought to be able to shoot at 25 yards. That old Remington is so easy to shoot and has such a great triggerpull I can't imagine missing with it. There is always a first I guess. Thanks for all the good feedback. I'll try to send a better picture for practice.; Flashman
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Flash
That looks like 4 dead squirrels and one that got a haircut. Now your getting all these guys excited with their brillness hardness graphs and powder burning rates. Your situation now with a few a very few bullets that are just a tad different than the rest. If 4 bullets print 3/8” inch and one an inch out it's not whether to use a hard or soft alloy. Just for your own sake weigh 10 bullets and only accept those +/- .2 grn add more bullets to get 10. Shoot 2 groups and see if you get any fliers. My feelings are you are going to get 2 groups somewhat the same measuring 3/8".
You asked a question if your Leupold 6X is good for parallax at 25 yds. I say yes. You can check by aiming your crosshair at the center of your aiming point and move your head side to side and up and down. If your crosshairs stay on your aiming point the scope is correct for parallax. You can do this for other distances. Factory scopes are corrected for parallax at their selected distance and usually good for other distances. Not always though that is why higher power scopes have a parallax adjustment for the shooter to use.
Stephen Perry
Angeles BR:fire
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Where did those 2 wild flyers come from ?ÂÂ
Those 2 wild shots looks like they are not stable. You might be on the ragged edge of stability. Those holes in the paper are not round. Try more powder.
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Agree with the above who say you'll probably have to push it a bit harder. With that 14 twist you might hve to go to a shorter bullet to get it to shoot down around 1100 fps. Lyman makes that 225438 or if you're adventurous and don't want the option of using a check you could have the shank turned or milled off the 415. I'd try doing what you're doing now with air cooled WW first though.
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Pat has the insight on this squirrel load project. As Paul said earlier you have 2 unstable bullets thus the 2 fliers on one target and a third unstable bullet on the target with the the nice 4 shot group with high flier. I have 225415 and have shot it more than any 22 cast bullet but I have not shot groups with it at 25 yd though. I have always looked at 225438 but I will now be looking to get a mold for reduced load performance. Pat is probably going to be right in his assement of the Loverin style 225438. The little chunker should stabilize sooner than heavier 22 cast bullets depending on barrel twist, 1-14 is a common deuce twist. Seems linno wrote some good stuff on 225438 earlier this year still around worth looking up.
Stephen Perry
Angeles BR:fire
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While not a .222, in experimenting with low velocity .22 Hornet loads I think I achieved what you are looking for.
In my Ruger No 3 carbine I load a Lyman 225450 cast from range scrap tumble lubed with Lee liquid alox and powered by with either 1.5 grains of Bullseye or 2 grains of Unique. I use small pistol primers and de-prime and prime with a copy of a farrow loading tool that I made. I use home made scoops that deliver either of the charges I want and seet the bullets by hand. I reuse the same fifty remington cases over and over and never use a die to either size my cases or to crimp my cartridges.
Here is a rather poor photo (taken with my cell phone) of a ten shot group loaded with 1.5 grains of bullseye.
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Nice shooting. You're the first guy I've seen here that uses that bullet. I have an old Ideal 224450, the same bullet I'm assuming. It's a 50 gr. spire point. I'm getting ready to try some high speed loads with it in my Hornet(s) and .223s. I've also experimented with the low speed types, getting similar accuracy to what you have. I'm shooting for a 150 yd. ground squirrel load. I like your idea about not sizing, both my Hornets are single shots. Done any other loads with that bullet?
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Mike
That's good solid 5/8” group. I like the Ruger 3 especially for a Hornet. Best gun that was mass produced for a Hornet, probably not as massed as I think. Since I wouldn't pay the collectors value of a Model 70 the Ruger 3 if one comes by will be my choice. Good data recording on the target. Same way I record at the Range.
Stephen Perry
Angeles BR:fire
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wimilkman
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Tom Acheson
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pat i.
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Aaron
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BRatigan
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MarkinEllensburg
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Ed Harris
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porthos
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mashburn
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Pigslayer
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