.45 Colt in .455 S&W 2nd Model Hand Ejector

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  • Last Post 24 June 2017
hanover67 posted this 19 December 2016

I just purchased a 2nd Model S&W hand ejector of 1916 vintage. It has been chambered for .45 Colt, with the back of the cylinder recessed to accept .45 rims and the cylinder reamed to accept full length .45 Colt cartridges.

I've been cautioned to use mild loads. I got an old Lyman 45468 hollow-base mold which throws 182gr bullets using my scrap lead alloy, of unknown hardness. As cast diameter is .455". A dummy cartridge with this bullet fits fine. The cylinder chamber mouths are .458"

I've reviewed several Lyman handbooks. I have Bullseye, Unique, and 700X powders. I'm hoping to achieve a load with about 700fps velocity and low pressure.

The manuals are not contestant, but seem to indicate that a charge of 4.0 gr of Bullseye has a velocity of 536fps and 5.0 gr is at 810fps. Interpolating in between results in a charge of about 4.6gr for 700fps.

With Unique, a charge of 6.0gr produces 595fps and 8.0gr is at 785fps, so 700fps would be a charge of 7.0gr of Unique.

Some handbooks do not list pressure but those that do indicate that Unique has lower pressures than Bullseye.

While this is a lighter bullet, 5.5gr of Unique gave me sharp recoil in a USFA .44 Special with 240gr bullets. I know it is comparing apples and oranges, but I don't want to damage the gun.

What do you think?

 

 

 

 

what-powder/charge?

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SierraHunter posted this 19 December 2016

I know it's not a powder you listed but I think about 4 grains of Clay's will give you exactly what you are looking for in velocity and low pressure as to not damage the gun.

I also think you books are off. All my books show 6 grains or so of unique give over 800 FPS. If I had to use one of the powders you listed, I would start at about 5.5gn of unique and work up from there.

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TheMrNotSoFamous posted this 19 December 2016

I wouldn't venture much past starting loads with a gun of that vintage...just my 2 cents. Be safe.

Owning a firearm doesn't make you armed anymore than owning a guitar makes you a musician...words of Jeff Cooper

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Ed Harris posted this 19 December 2016

Starting to mid-range loads listed in Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edtion (2010) will be fine in your S&W .45 HE.  My experience with Unique in the .455 is that it doesn't ignite well or burn completely in light charges and leaves much unburned powder.  You are better off with a more easily ignited, faster-burning powder such as Bullseye, Red Dot, 700-X, TiteGroup. 231 or HP38.

In the 0.87” long  .455 MkI cases 3.5 grains the above powders is a full charge with the 265-grain Mk II service bullet.  This should be reduced 10% for the shorter Fiocchi or Hornady 0.77” .455 Mk. II brass.

If you revolver has been rechambered for .45 Colt, an appropriate charge with 250-grain bullet similar to Saeco #955 or Ideal #454190 is 4.5 grains of Bullseye or any of the above powders in the 1.10” Schofield cases, or 5.0 grains with any of the above powders using a 230-grain bullet similar to Saeco #954, or RCBS 45-230CM. 

With full-length 1.285” .45 Colt cases a charge of 5.5 grains of the above powders with 250-grain, or 6 grains with 230-grain bullets will be safe, mild and satisfactory.  If necessary charges can be increased upward a half grain or so if it improved accuracy without exceed the 12.700 psi service pressure of the .455 Webley cartridge for which the revolver was designed.  If you can determine whether or not the cylinder was heat treated, (heat treated S&W cylinders made after about 1915 will register about 85-90 Rockwell B or harder) a a heat treated .45 HE can safely handle full SAAMI level standard .45 Colt loads up to 14,000 cup. 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 27 December 2016

Finally got a decent range day to re-shoot the Webley with the reamed and honed cylinder throats.  Now that I have fired brass t reload, I can't wait to see what it does with bullets of proper diameter to fit the uniformed and now enlarged throats.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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hanover67 posted this 08 January 2017

I Finally decided on 4.5gr of 700X with the 182gr hollow-based cast bullet in the .45 Colt cartridge as a starting load. I don't have a .454” lube/sizer die, so I tumble lubed the as-cast .455 bullets in Lee Lube. Now I need the rain to stop and some free time to get to a range so I can shoot it.

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hanover67 posted this 24 June 2017

The 4.5gr of 700X was OK. I was shooting offhand at 10 yards at a new range to me so I didn't get  small groups, but was able to keep most shots in the black.

 

I don't know what the velocity was but I had the sense that big bore revolvers do better at higher speeds. So, for the next session I raised the charge to 5.0 gr of 700X. It seemed to shoot better, or maybe I was getting used to the old S & W. And, I had obtained a .454" lube/sizer die so I was able to improve on the  Lee tumble lube I used before.  For now I'm happy with this load.

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David Reiss posted this 24 June 2017

Just my two cents, but my .45 colts shoot better with W231 & Red Dot. I have tried all the powders and finally bought a 8 lb. keg just for them. I already have large amounts of W231 for other calibers. I am a little surprised you did not get better results with 700X. I would measure my cylinder throats and try bullets suited for them, then go with some Red Dot.

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
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