Am New to this board have question.
Have been trying 2.0 grains reddot and 2.3 grains aa2 in a 38s&w colt with a 200 grain round nose bullet. redot was running 630fps and aa2 590fps and dirty.
was looking for any other data redot,700x. I ask for the reddot because i cant rember where i got the data.My colt is fine but shooting buddie has breaktop enfields worried bout pressure curve.
Sorry I did not see the 38 super police thread forgot it was called that have always called it 38/200
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In the No. 2 Enfield top breaks 2.5 grs. of Bullseye 2.8 of W231 or 3.5 grs. of Unique with the #358430 is pretty standard. I wouldn't go over 2 grs. of Red Dot or 700-X without checking velocity. If you don't go over 650 f.p.s. you are OK.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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Thanks dude i figured you would have an idea. red Dot 700x hs6 are my pistol powders is why i was looking for published data. Like i said 630 to 650 ,10ft from muzzel colt police positive 5in bbl. To tell the truth in this gun i load 2grns red dot from 146 to 200 grain bullets. 2 grains aa2 tends to run 20 to 30 fps slower than red dot.
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Comparing Ed's data with what is in the Lyman #49 book shows Ed's loads quite a bit hotter.
Ed, do you seat that 358430 boolit out to the top grease groove or seat it in all the way to the crimp groove? OR Is your data JUST for enfields and solid frame guns while the Lyman folks are keeping things low for the weaker top break guns?
I just picked up a 358430 and would like to get into the 600 fps range to duplicate ballistics of the 38/200 without stressing my Webley.
Cheers.
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I don't know whether my favorite topic these days is .38 revolvers with 200g bullets, or .32 S&W Long loads. . . !
So far, I've shot only .38 SPL loads in 200g; my only .38/200 revolver was a WWII Enfield, and it's long gone. . .However, I'm been starting to hanker for a S&W Mod. 32 or Terrier, as I've seen a couple of beautiful ones on-line.
Ed, when you answer Colin's question, please do me the favor of indicating your thoughts about 200g loads for the Mod. 32. I presume the fixed sights are regulated for 145-146g factory loads, and 200s probably shoot quite high. Any input appreciated! (Also, if I'm right about the 200s shooting high, any tips on good ways to raise the front sights. . . ?)
By the way I enjoyed the title & concept of the “See what Ed Harris made me do?” posting! I had never had any use for .32s until I started reading & re-reading Ed's posts, and now I've got a S&W 30-1 snubbie and am hankering for a 4” to mount adjustable sights on! Seriously, Ed, thanks for your professional insights on all these matters.
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Messin' with those old loads is sure fun, I agree. I shoot 38 S&W in an old Smith topbreak five shot revolver, don't remember the model, and 38 Sp. in an old Victory lend lease gun that looks like it was dropped in a outhouse and left behind. Both guns get very light loads, but are fun. Either one will still do what it was made for. Louisianaman, I'd like to hear more about those .32 Longs you're shooting. I'm going to be a .32 shooter soon myself, a Ruger SSM in .32 H&R Magnum found me.
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tturner, Will PM you momentarily with some .32 info so I don't hijack the OP's .38/200 thread.
By the way, when I've loaded Mt. Baldy 200g LSWC-K bullets in front of a charge of Win231, I get 718fps out of my 2” Detective Special and about 750fps from my 4” guns. (These bullets have to be deep-seated to chamber, so I reduce the old factory load of 3.8g Win 231 by about 10-12% with my lot of powder.) Even the D.S. slug will bore a straight line thru 6 jugs and bury itself to the shoulder in a 2x12, knocking down the 18” board! When I shoot 200g LRN, it tends to curve markedly and jug 6 barely missed getting hit as the bullet curved out of the edge of #5.
These .38SPL loads are roughly 75-100fps faster than the original British .38/200 from a 5” barrel, and they still shoot quite high with fixed sights regulated for 158g bullets. If I slow down the load in a .38 S&W, I wonder what the POA to POI relationship will prove to be.
I guess I'd rate a 200g .38 slug at 600-700fps as VERY rough on a BG if it hits bone, and especially if its soft-cast and SWC shaped. I'd expect a T&T penetration at most angles. Not sure if I'll be able to get an alloy that might expand at those vels, but the SWC gives a full-caliber hole and seems to stay on track, just as the Brits apparently concluded in the 1920s. Soon I'll have a .35 Remington 200g LFP mold & will see how it does against the wily milk jugs. I'm also in on a group buy effort to buy a 200g LSWC-K mold. Let me know if you're interested.
In the meantime, can anyone offer anything about the penetration ability & characteristics of factory .38 S&W loads? I know they're modest by modern standards, but would like to compare them to the .32s I'm loading. Neither would have the shock of high vel, so their physical effectiveness is a function of penetration, not speed or expansion. I expect the heavy-for-caliber .32s will penetrate T&T at close range unless they hit bone. Obviously, wound channel is smaller than a .38, however.
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OK, got several Mods. 32-1 and 33-1 in hand, and more inbound. Also one Mod 33 (nominally an I-frame, although apparently some were actually J's).
Anyone knowledgeable on the practical limits I should set for these guns is welcome to chime in. I am especially interested in 200g bullet loads, whose momentum will probably give better penetration than anything else. And given the low vels of this cartridge, penetration is what I want to optimize.
(Cue: sound of crickets chirping. . . :-)
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i purchased the newest lyman pistol and revolver load book because they had loads for the 200 gr. bullet in the 38 S&W. The loads listed are so low that they hardly get out of the blr. i put them over the chronograph with a couple powders they list and none got to 500 fps. This was in a victory model Smith with 5 inch blr. I am now loading 2.6 Gr. of 7625 with good accuracy. i don't know the velocity. It shoots to point of aim and i can keep them in the black on a good day. Joe Gifford aka argie1891
if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand
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Thanks, argie1891.
FWIW, my Lyman 46th shows your powder as 2.4g/660 starting load, 2.9/770 max load, with 158g lead @1.150” OAL in a Mod. 33.
Speer 13 shows 2.6g/683 and 2.9/752 max, with 158g lead @ 1.065” OAL in a Mod 33.
You probably knew that already, but I'm using it for comparison. Yours looks potentially comparable, possibly a tad stronger but you're also shooting in a stronger frame.
Thanks for the input--it is a very useful reference point for me.
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Thanks, argie1891.
FWIW, my Lyman 46th shows your powder as 2.4g/660 starting load, 2.9/770 max load, with 158g lead @1.150” OAL in a Mod. 33.
i dont remember the lyman book i was looking at but the loads i tried were going only 495 fps and they were the max loads listed in lymans book. they were more like a cap gun than a firearm. if i remember it was less than 2 gr. of byse. i will look it up and get back to you. joe gifford
if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand
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My dad gave me a “bag of revolvers” to either sell or have as I am willing to buy from him. Old uncle Dicks estate, dad was executor. Anyway theres a 38 cal Enfield. I have been watching this thread and also been drawn to buy the 38 from the bag.
Anyone have a relatively good 158gr load that wont blow it up but shoots ok for testing?? I dont want to buy a mold before I do some testing first. I have the usual assortment of Alliant and Hodgdon powders. I just don't have a 38 cal 200 gr bullet aside from the RCBS 35/200 for sillouette. Thanks in advance.
Hey do they shoot OK?? I would like to plink and indoor range shoot with it if it is economical. Can I use PURE LEAD bullets or tape weights??
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Anyone still watching this great topic, please take a look at what I've worked up so far at
This thread was of great assistance in getting me started on this subject, which I find extremely interesting. Thanks!
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Thanks dude
"DUDE” A little respect, PLEASE,
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I had 2 problems with 158 grains bullets for my Enfield and Webley top break revolvers. The first was that the bullet diameter is too small. The cylinders measure .360 ,the second problem is that the revolvers shoot too low with these bullets. Therefore I bought a NEI 169A mold. A load of 2.0 grains Accurate no.2 with this 200 grain bullet ,COL= 32.2 mm shoots to point of aim at 15 m. No leading. and the accuracy is OK. Webley revolvers quite often have a problem with the timing.It is advisable to check it and correct it if necessary.
There is a book that might interest you:
.380 Enfield No 2 Revolver ,Mark Stamps & Ian Skennerton ISBN 185367 139 8
I have a drawing of the pistol, Revolver No 2, Mk I .38 In
The barrel data : Bore .352. Diameter of rifling L.360, H.364 Width of groove .125,Twist 1:15,No of grooves 7.
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Comparing Ed's data with what is in the Lyman #49 book shows Ed's loads quite a bit hotter. Ed, do you seat that 358430 boolit out to the top grease groove or seat it in all the way to the crimp groove?
OR
Is your data JUST for enfields and solid frame guns while the Lyman folks are keeping things low for the weaker top break guns?
Seat the bullet out to the crimp groove. I use these in No. 2 Enfields and solid frame Colt, S&W and swing-out cylinder postwar H&Rs.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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Please double-check my thread at http://www.castbulletassoc.org/viewtopic.php?id=5747&forumid=8&jumpto=35536#p35536 for info directly related to 38/200
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I'm sorry, I confused this thread with the other one at:
http://www.castbulletassoc.org/viewtopic.php?id=5747&forumid=8&jumpto=35536#p35536
Louisiana Man,
All this heavy lead handgun stuff fires me up, and after reading your posts last night I got to thinking about Buffalo Bore. Now they are typically big on speed and hard cast, but for some things they offer soft lead bullets with a gas check. This is especially true for .38 Special 156 grain LSWCHP, and a new round for .44 mag called a “Deer Grenade".
So my question is, how about casting one of your 200 grainers out of pure lead and paper patching it, or use a GC style mold. I was at the Alamo a few weeks back walking through the museum. There were lots of recovered lead balls there, and man were they flattened out. In an autoloader, they would get smushed on the feedramp, but in a wheel gun they would have a nice clean ride.
It would be interesting to see what a trip through the milk jugs would do to a pure lead 200 grain bullet at that speed.
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Aaron
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linoww
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Wilderness
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