38 HBWC Factory Bullet Suggestion?

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  • Last Post 14 February 2024
linoww posted this 11 February 2024

Well I've run out of my beloved Remington 148 HBWC and need to restock . Can anyone recommend a current best hbwc brand ?

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Ed Harris posted this 12 February 2024

Test barrel was 18-3/4" twist SAAMI dimensioned industrial test barrel, exactly the same as used by the ammunition companies. Best ten-shot fifty yard groups firing in a tube were in the order of 1-1/4" to 1-1/2". A Ruger PPC revolver built by Jim Clark with Douglas 14-inch twist was consistently under 2 inches and a Bill Davis Ruger with 10-inch twist 9mm barrel shot as well as the SAAMI accuracy test barrel.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Larry Gibson posted this 13 February 2024

You told me and everyone else on other forums and during phone calls and PMs a lot of, or most all of your rifles, would hold MOA at long range. That was at usually 316 or 318 yards at high velocities.  But then you didn't go by your current handle then. 'Nough said about that.

The 423471 is an excellent bullet, particularly in and good/excellent milsurp barrel with spec deep grooves.  Several of the design attributes of that particular bullet are well suited to HV performance.  With that bullet in that Mauser spec barrel the RPM Threshold can be pushed had upwards of 2200 fps while maintaining very good accuracy.  Not saying consistent MOA [there is nothing "consistent" accuracy wise about a single 3 shot group at any range] but very good accuracy.

Back to this thread's topic; back in my PPC/TRC days I Ransom Rest tested Hornady, Speer and Remington 38 HBWCs loaded over 2.7 gr Bullseye in my Power Custom PPC S&W M10 revolver.  Testing was done at 50 yards [max range shot during matches] shooting 12 shots [twice around the cylinder].  I found all three would shoot into 1 1/2 to 2".  Remington and Federal match factory loads would shoot into 1 1/4 - 1 1/2".  Like many I used the factory at the 50 yard line and my own reloads at the 7, 10, 15 and 25 yard lines. .

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

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MP1886 posted this 11 February 2024

Layne Simpson has a good right up on 38 wadcutters. Remember he was a match shooter. He covered a good many of them with loads and groups. Ironically, if I remember correctly, one of the best was pc coated.

When I use to shoot them I shot Hornady and Speer.  I preferred the Hornady and their dry lubricate was messy like Speers sticky stuff.  For me 2.7 grains of Bullseye produced a dime size hole at indoor range of 50 feet for a cylinder full. Time after time.  Revolver was a 4 inch Model 19 S&W. Didn't see to make a difference if I used 38 Special or 357 Mag cases.  No leading what so ever. 

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linoww posted this 12 February 2024

Firing from test barrel at Ruger in the 1980s Winchester HBWCs were best, Remington next. Accuracy was better with slight increase in powder charge to improve stability. 3 grains of Bullseye or 3.3 of 231.
thanks for the data. My dad has boxes of Winchester factory wadcutter match ammo he hides from me .I believe it's late 70's or early 80's.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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RicinYakima posted this 12 February 2024

The only issues I have heard about are form guys shooting PPC and lightened springs. They have a little harder cup than Federal 100's, about like WW small pistol magnums. 

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gnoahhh posted this 12 February 2024

Those small pistol Servicias Aventura primers have been working perfectly for me in a wide range of revolvers - S&W 1903 Hand Ejectors, Colt Police Positives (and PPS's), S&W K's, and Colt Officer's Models - all with factory springs. Only complaint is that the "bang" has kind of a Latino accent.laughing

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Ed Harris posted this 11 February 2024

Precision Delta are affordable and accurate, but cannot be used with full charges. Best not to exceed 3 grains of Bullseye or TiteGroup in .38 Special brass.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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linoww posted this 11 February 2024

I think my loads ok,this is 50 yards with a 10-5 with  6" pencil barrel today.I just need a quality replacement for my Remingtons.

 

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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wimilkman posted this 12 February 2024

Second for Precision Delta they are equal to Hornady and Speer in accuracy and easier to get . My preferred powder is American Select but if I can’t find it I use Bullseye, Titegroup , 700X or W244 . Primers are whatever I can get my hands on currently using Servicios Aventuras SP .

Fred Honeyager

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pat i. posted this 12 February 2024

Layne Simpson has a good right up on 38 wadcutters. Remember he was a match shooter. He covered a good many of them with loads and groups. Ironically, if I remember correctly, one of the best was pc coated.

When I use to shoot them I shot Hornady and Speer.  I preferred the Hornady and their dry lubricate was messy like Speers sticky stuff.  For me 2.7 grains of Bullseye produced a dime size hole at indoor range of 50 feet for a cylinder full. Time after time.  Revolver was a 4 inch Model 19 S&W. Didn't see to make a difference if I used 38 Special or 357 Mag cases.  No leading what so ever. 

Less than a minute of angle with a cast bullet in an 8mm Mauser at 465 yards. 6 shot dime sized groups with a Mdl 19 at 50 feet time after time! Man I think you should be teaching Layne Simpson not quoting him.

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MP1886 posted this 12 February 2024

Layne Simpson has a good right up on 38 wadcutters. Remember he was a match shooter. He covered a good many of them with loads and groups. Ironically, if I remember correctly, one of the best was pc coated.

When I use to shoot them I shot Hornady and Speer.  I preferred the Hornady and their dry lubricate was messy like Speers sticky stuff.  For me 2.7 grains of Bullseye produced a dime size hole at indoor range of 50 feet for a cylinder full. Time after time.  Revolver was a 4 inch Model 19 S&W. Didn't see to make a difference if I used 38 Special or 357 Mag cases.  No leading what so ever. 

Less than a minute of angle with a cast bullet in an 8mm Mauser at 465 yards. 6 shot dime sized groups with a Mdl 19 at 50 feet time after time! Man I think you should be teaching Layne Simpson not quoting him.
Let's clean your post up. The 8x57 was 2 inches, not minute of angle at 469 measures yards. The particular Lyman 8mm bullet I was using has over a .400 BC.  It's an excellent bullet especiall for long distance. It's 213 grains so it carries well at distance.
Now as for the dime groups at 50 feet. Sounds good with the "50" in there, but that's only 16.66 yards. As for Layne no thanks. The man can shoot and his 38 wadcutter article was shot at 25 yards. Layne isn't a bad writer like some other's that we have come to know. 

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MP1886 posted this 12 February 2024

Just like you said it's no big deal typo on the mould number. I already addressed it and apparently is must be a big deal for you huh pat? Plus 2 inches is less then 2 minute of angle. Since LMG likes moa I posted it that way. He's also very aware of that shooting and we discussed it in length elsewhere. He  agreed that particular bullet is a very good one. So does this conclude this now?

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MP1886 posted this 13 February 2024

Trying Ric, trying. 

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Ed Harris posted this 13 February 2024

Larry's results with .38 wadcutter in a good PPC revolver track exactly with my experiences at Ruger. Ron Power is one of the best revolver mechanics in the country and ranks right up there with Jim Clark, Bill Davis, and Reeves Jungkind

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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wimilkman posted this 14 February 2024

I only have 2 guns that don’t like them to well but I solved the problem with my XD 40 S&W the captured guide rod broke and Springfield sent me a new one put it in and now no issues with Servicios Aventuras primers. My S&W 929 PC revolver in 9mm I do get some FTF’s but every other gun I have there has been no issue. I seen them on Powder Valleys website yesterday for $62.99 per 1000 was going to order some but still have 5000 left of the 10000 I ordered. They also work extremely well in 357 magnum and will ignite W296/H110 with no issues.

Fred Honeyager

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RicinYakima posted this 11 February 2024

While I always liked the Hornady HBWC, they are twice as expensive as Powder Valley's ZERO company bullets (on sale today). However, I have never loaded them or shot them.

Or you can borrow my mould and make your own.

FWIW 

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linoww posted this 11 February 2024

Thanks for the offer but I'm being lazy and just wanna buy some. I saw the Zero bullets but not sure as I've seen no feedback.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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RicinYakima posted this 11 February 2024

If you go to the Powder Valley site, they have a 4.8 out of 5. 

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linoww posted this 11 February 2024

thx,I'll look them up. I was gifted 1000 38 Special Handloaded  with 148 Speer that had 3.5g bullseye. They produce two holes.😀

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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MP1886 posted this 12 February 2024

 I know that those Remingtons were good, but in Simpson's shooting they weren't the top.  He did a bunch of brands. Zero was included.  I make my own hollow base swaged wadcutter.  I even shoot them from my 38 Super 1911 and they/it are very accurate. 

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