357 magnum, 170 grain bullet, and Unique?

  • 1.2K Views
  • Last Post 23 September 2020
  • Topic Is Solved
max503 posted this 22 July 2020

I'm looking to develop a heavy load for a 357 rifle using these components and was wondering if anyone has experience with it.  My manuals only show Unique used with lighter bullet weights.  Thanks.

Attached Files

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
Squid Boy posted this 22 July 2020

I think Unique is a bit fast for heavy bullets and I've had the best accuracy and velocity using H-4227. Squid

"Squid Pro Quo"

Attached Files

99 Strajght posted this 22 July 2020

I like both 14 gr. of 2400 and 14 gr. of H-4227 with a 170 gr. bullet.

 

Glenn

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
  • Bill2728
Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 22 July 2020

..if your barrel is 22 or 24 inches long, consider H110 for heavy loads ...

THE Good news:  where loads are hot enough to assure clean burning ... H110 gives really top velocities ... in these smaller cartridges .

THE Bad news ::  short barrels give a big muzzle flash and blast ... and there are reports of H110 being unsafe in reduced loads .... 

ken

 

 

 

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
RicinYakima posted this 22 July 2020

Back in the olden days, 5.5 grains was a common charge for the Lyman Keith 173 grain bullets for revolvers. That is not a maximum load, but a lot easier on the ears than the normal 2400 loads we used to use. FWIW

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
max503 posted this 22 July 2020

Maybe I'm answering my own question but I looked back at my notes and saw I had good luck with 4.2 grains of Unique with this bullet in a 38 case.  I'm basically wondering how high I can go in a 357 case.  My Lyman manual lists 5.0 grains as max in a 38 case but it doesn't list Unique for this bullet in a 357 load.  Maybe I should start at 5.0 and work up.

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • Bud Hyett
RicinYakima posted this 22 July 2020

If you want to use Unique, that is going to be the right start. Manuals don't list it because the max pressure load with Unique would be less than a start load with say 4227. Velocity sells (and gets space in loading manuals) where other useful loads are dropped.

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • TRKakaCatWhisperer
  • Bud Hyett
Little Debbie posted this 23 July 2020

After looking at some old notes (circa1980) I’ve loaded 7 gr. of Unique with the Lyman 358429 that weighed 172 gr in .357 cases for revolvers. Velocity averaged 1110 FPS from a 6” barreled S&W M19. The source of the data is listed as Lyman. I assume the data was listed in the 3rd edition cast bullet manual or maybe 45th or 46th edition of the Lyman reloading handbook. Accuracy was so-so according to the notes, but then again the bullets were wheel weights sized .357”. I haven’t sized a bullet for .38 Spl/.357 bullet smaller than .358 for 20+ years. Back then I followed everything Lyman instructed. Hope this helps, if need be I can find the published source for this. I’m guessing 1400 FPS with that load in a 20” barrel.

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • RicinYakima
max503 posted this 01 August 2020

I've been unable to start a new discussion so I'll try to post this here:

Seems my Rossi 357 rifle is leading.  I was shooting some 148 grain WC's loaded with 4.5 grains of Unique.  (I had to single-load these into the gun.)  At first they shot well then they shot poorly.  So I scrubbed the bore with Chore Boy copper and string trimmer line and shot 3, 3 shot groups.  You can see how the accuracy quickly falls off.  I shot the left bullseye first, then the middle, then the right.  Now I'm wondering what to do.  I could keep all my loads light, or I could invest in a gas check mold, a Lee push die, and some 35 caliber gas checks.  I don't really want to go down that road.  This gun is just a plinker and I want to avoid the extra expense and effort of the gas checks.  I've read where COW can be used in place of a gas check.  I've had good luck with shot buffer in my 44 magnum loads.

I was hoping some of the plain-base shooters could offer some advice.  For now I'll keep my loads light, but it would be nice to add a little more power to them for long range shooting.  I like to lob boolits at the 200 yard gong.  Thanks.

Attached Files

Little Debbie posted this 01 August 2020

Watch out for fillers. Lots of unexpected trouble. Need some info to help. I’m sure you can get what you want without going to gas checks. What type of alloy are you using? Lube? What range were you shooting your groups at? WC are good to about 50 yards and it doesn’t take much to destabilize then. They are very wind sensitive to. As you proceed looks like the bullets are starting to yaw. The only Rossi M92 I’ve seen had a fairly rough bore. Some times shooting a box of ammo with jacketed bullets does some good, smoothing and conditioning the bore. This is all part of the fun.

Attached Files

max503 posted this 01 August 2020

To answer your questions - I use a fairly hard alloy with a lot of linotype 'cause that what I've got.  I throw in bits and pieces of fishing weights from the river and range scrap.  Lube is LLA.  Those were shot at 50 yards, iron sights, of course.

My plan of action is to back off and stay low velocity until I can get consistent performance, and to see if indeed I have a leading problem.  To be truthful I'm having trouble actually seeing lead in the bore, but the gun shoots better after the Chore Boy treatment.  At least for a few rounds.

Attached Files

358156hp posted this 03 August 2020

Have you slugged your bore? Another potential issue is the throat sizing in the barrel. A pound slug of the throat is a really good idea here. You could be having bullet dimension issues.

Attached Files

max503 posted this 04 August 2020

Have you slugged your bore? Another potential issue is the throat sizing in the barrel. A pound slug of the throat is a really good idea here. You could be having bullet dimension issues.

I'll try that.  But why would the groups open up like they do?  They do this consistently.  First couple shots group nicely then groups turn to patterns.  I brush out the barrel and it starts all over.  Look at the picture in my previous post.

Attached Files

Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 05 August 2020

... just because it is an easy test .... you might try letting your barrel cool 5 minutes between your 3 shot groups ... 

definitely do a chamber and throat image, and save it for future reference ... it is helpful in several ways.  not just diameters but helps you determine seating depths for odd bullets.

and as a last resort, you might try " fire-lapping " ...  >> last resort >>, and use only 6 or 8 shots of 600 or 800 grit ... some of my friends with Rossi 22RF have had to do this ... gets some worthwhile improvement ... but still never a Lilja ...

ken

 

Attached Files

max503 posted this 06 August 2020

I finally slugged the barrel and it measures .357.  One interesting thing - I started the slug at the muzzle and it went through the bore fairly easily until it got to the last inch or so in front of the chamber.  So I'm guessing I had some leading there, and the chore boy treatment isn't removing it.  Maybe I can blow it out with some low power jacketed bullet loads.  

I have some of that low-temp alloy for making chamber casts.  That will be my next effort after I get the leading out.

Attached Files

BigMan54 posted this 11 August 2020

Your Manuals aren't old enough. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #1 from the late 1950's lists 7.0grs with a #358429. 

I used to load 6.5grs because I got very good accuracy in all my .357 Revolvers, better then the 7.0gr charge.

I wouldn't load either of those loads today because that was 30yrs ago. Powders HAVE CHANGED !!!!!!!

For a warmish rifle load I would start with 2400, ya need a slower powder for that long bbl.

 

I SUGGEST YOU DO NOT USE ANY OF THE LOADS I LISTED

THEY ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY.

 

 

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun. Did I mention how much I HATE auto-correct on this blasted tablet.

Attached Files

max503 posted this 11 August 2020

Don't worry.  I'm not going to blow myself up.  Unique seems to work as well as anything I've tried.  Even 4759.  That 170 grain bullet in a 357 case just barely feeds through the gun.  

Attached Files

max503 posted this 12 August 2020

Funny you should say that. I am lino-rich. Bought numerous buckets of it a couple decades ago. Helped a guy clean out a garage. It's mostly what I use. At your suggestion I can try diluting it with range scrap.

Attached Files

Kosh posted this 16 September 2020

A "FAIR" carbine load for .357 was 7.5/Unique/158 gr. RNFP. Not a barnstormer, but certainly a game-getter & varmint-dispatcher. For a 170+ grain cast projectile, I'D start with 6.3 Unique, knowing that it's probably not what you'll want, but will be safe, then work up to 6.8/Unique/173(-ish). Just an idea. 

You can certainly improve on the velocities wrought by the load(s), I mention. The use of Allliant 2400, Hodgdon H110 or any form of 4227 will get you there, But at the velocities yielded by these propellants, the use of J-word projectiles may be well advised. 

Attached Files

max503 posted this 16 September 2020

Thanks.  I bought some 158 grain plated bullets because that's what was available due to the current conditions.  Got some loaded up with 6.4 Unique.  Should be able to try them out this week.  

I'm concerned with my dies.  After sizing, the I.D. of the case measures (roughly) .349".  After flaring/expansion the I.D. measures .353".  These are RCBS steel dies.  Maybe my boolits are getting swaged down in the seating process?  NOE sells expander buttons for the Lee Universal flaring die.  I'm wondering if I might invest in one of those expanders.  First I want to see what it does with the plated bullets.  I hate throwing money at a problem, even if it is just a couple bucks plus shipping.

I'll be happy if I can find a cast load going around 1200 fps that I can shoot all day that won't lead the barrel.

Attached Files

max503 posted this 23 September 2020

 OK.  I've been shooting 170's out of my Rossi lever action.  It's been suggested my linotype bullets are too hard.  Now I've got some pure lead ingots (roof sheathing)  and some linotype ingots.

What mix should I try?  1:1 lead to lino? That's the ratio I got from the pencil-test hardness chart.  Any other educated suggestions?

I'd be happy with 1200-1400 fps with the plain-base 170 grain SWC.  Been using around 6.0 to 6.5 Unique as an upper load.  

Attached Files

Close