30-30 Winchester primer test

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  • Last Post 05 August 2024
fa38 posted this 29 July 2024

A test of primers for my rifle.

Ruger #1 rifle 30-30 Winchester. 6x to 18x Burris

Richard Hoch 311173 single cavity plain base bullet mold.

The mold is dated 2-29-1984.

The bands are base .310 next .309, next .308.  The bore riding part of the nose is .303 tapering to .300.

The bullets weigh 177 grains. Sized at .310, My own lube.

The barrel is a MATCO 5 groove chambered by M. Penrod with a .328 neck.

 

The ammunition was loaded at the range.

An Andula (sp) breech seating tool, Win 231 powder, R.P. cases, Harrell powder measure.

Primers tested with that same load are large rifle CCI 200, Rem 9 ½ M, Rem 9 ½, and large pistol Rem 2 1/2 primers. 

I have other large pistol primers but no other large rifle primers

 The group (6 shots) at 9:00 in picture 1 was 7.2 grains of Win 231 with the measure set at 79 clicks.  This load was worked up using Win LR primers.  I am out of those primers and can’ find any.

 I then went to target 2 and shot the four 5 shot groups with the other primers.

I went back to target one and shot three more groups with the Rem 2/12 primers with a slightly heavier charge (79.2 clicks and 81.2 clicks.

The velocity for all rounds averaged 1237.9.  This includes the large pistol primer loads.  32 FPS total spread for all shots.

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pat i. posted this 29 July 2024

Great write up Martin. What range were you shooting? What I THINK I'm seeing with my 06 is the milder LR primers (CCI 200 and White River) shoot a little better than the hotter LR primers. Could be my imagination and change the next time out but maybe not.

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delmarskid posted this 29 July 2024

That’s the kind of thing I like to see.

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pat i. posted this 29 July 2024

Are you measuring those groups center to center or edge to edge. Only reason I ask is those groups look smaller than the measurements you have written down. Could be my eyes but just asking. Center to center is the right way to measure groups.

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fa38 posted this 30 July 2024

All shot at 100 yards.  Measurements are edge to edge. It was raining yesterday when I shot the targets with wind about 6 mph from 8:00 which is west southwest as our range faces north.

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porthos posted this 30 July 2024

from looking at the bullet pictures; the bands don't look well filled out. i suspect you are using bottom  pour??

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fa38 posted this 30 July 2024

Nose pour. I don't think Richard Hoch made anything but nose pour molds.  Could be wrong.

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Bud Hyett posted this 30 July 2024

All shot at 100 yards.  Measurements are edge to edge. - Subtract the bullet diameter from the edge-to-edge measurement to get the center-to-center value. 

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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pat i. posted this 30 July 2024

All shot at 100 yards.  Measurements are edge to edge. - Subtract the bullet diameter from the edge-to-edge measurement to get the center-to-center value. 

Yep. Or set your caliper to .308 and zero it then measure edge to edge. Either way your groups just got much better.

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 30 July 2024

All shot at 100 yards.  Measurements are edge to edge. - Subtract the bullet diameter from the edge-to-edge measurement to get the center-to-center value. 

Yep. Or set your caliper to .308 and zero it then measure edge to edge. Either way your groups just got much better.

Or another way, just measure edge to edge, same side of hole. I.E. left edge of bullet one to left edge of farthest away bullet two. 

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porthos posted this 30 July 2024

excuse me; i meant, are you using the bottom pour on the furnace vs. ladle pour

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SkinnerD posted this 31 July 2024

Excellent results, and great info thks. I didn't think Ruger No1 rifles were renowned for accuracy lol

John - New Zealand

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fa38 posted this 31 July 2024

Bottom pour furnace.

I did the scoring for a lot of the ASSRA matches at Beeson's range in Indiana.  I am not simple minded but my wife sometimes thinks I am. I do know how to measure a group but just did not subtract a caliber or measure inside edge to outside edge.  This is not meant to tick anybody off. 

Marty

 

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pat i. posted this 31 July 2024

I am not simple minded but my wife sometimes thinks I am. I do know how to measure a group but just did not subtract a caliber or measure inside edge to outside edge.  This is not meant to tick anybody off. 

Marty

 

I hope you didn't get insulted by my question or thought I was implying you were simple minded. I just asked because the groups looked smaller than the measurements you have written on the targets. I don't know what experience you have measuring group size so didn't want you selling your results short. Nice test and groups by the way. We need more actual testing to see what does and what doesn't change things instead of just going with stuff that has been repeated so many times they become accepted as right.

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fa38 posted this 03 August 2024

Shot the below groups today With WC820 powder and with Rem 9 ½ Mag and CCI 200 primers.

The Remington primers were in R-P cases and the CCI in F.C. cases.

All my cases have had the primer pockets cut with a K&M tool and the flash holes reamed with a K&M tool.

All loads were loaded at the range with powder thru a Harrell Schuetzen measure.

All cases had a floral foam wad cut with the case to keep powder from spilling into the action due to fumble fingers. 

The Hoch 177 grain bullets were breach seated with the Andula tool.

Each 5 shot group was preceded with a fouling shot into the berm.

 

Also decided to use Pat I’s method of measuring groups.  Using outer edges.

From Pat I  “”Yep. Or set your caliper to .308 and zero it then measure edge to edge. Either way your groups just got much better.””  Thanks Pat.

The group in the center of target No.3 opened up I think due to leading of my bore.  Outside temp got into the low 80’s  I stopped shooting because I only had 8 bullets left and I would have had to shoot 5 or 6 to recondition the bore.  When I got home and cleaned the bore I had a couple of quarter inch strips of lead on the patch.

Velocity averaged around 1450 fps.

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pat i. posted this 03 August 2024

Pretty good results. If you don't mind me asking a couple of questions and making a suggestion. As I said before I don't know your experience so keep that in mind, in other words I'm not suggesting you're a simpleton. Questions first. What lube and alloy are you using? Suggestion next. Try dropping the velocity down to around 1300 and see what happens. Finally. Do you feel that the milder LR primers MIGHT have an edge when it comes to accuracy? Im kinda leaning that way.

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fa38 posted this 03 August 2024

What lube.  Beeswax, lanolin, soy wax, peanut oil, a bit of carnauba wax, dextron oil,  stick of LBT Blue Soft to get some color. Or anything else I can think of. I have used various concoctions for black powder in my 40-65 (no longer mine) 30-06, 32-40, 30-30 1.5", 25-20 Win, 7x57, 6.5 Swede. 7.5x33 Swiss, Not all of that in any one batch,  No idea whats in my current batch.  Everything seemed to work.  Probably because of the bees wax, lanolin, and peanut oil or dextron.tran fluid

Alloy.  Whatever I can get my hands on and then pure lead to soften it enough so that it breach seats easily.

Shot some groups at around 1270 to 1380 with groups from 1.5 to 4 inches.

Milder LR primers.  Don't know.  I have several brands of LP primers.  What primer or primers do you consider as being a milder primer.

Marty

 

 

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4060may posted this 03 August 2024

just an FYI

Primer test photos

https://www.6mmbr.com/PrimerPix.html

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Eutectic posted this 05 August 2024

Richard Hoch made custom base pour molds on request.

I have a matched set of 4 cavity Hoch molds for a 195 grain SWC for 45 ACP.

The production rate running two 4 cavity molds is great but it drains a 20 pound bottom pour pot in minutes.

Then you have to refill the pot and wait until it heats up. I needed two pots to realize the expected production rate. I now use one mold at a time.

 

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