What Power Scope

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  • Last Post 24 November 2008
mrbill2 posted this 16 September 2008

Hello All

I'd like to try some benchrest cast bullet shooting at 100 and 200 yds. Should I buy a variable power scope or just a straight power. I have two variable on other guns and they are hardly ever turned down to the lower power. Thought I might just as well go for a 24X or 36X. Your thoughts.

New barrel brake in. The barrel is new and I intend to shoot cast bullets. Now, do I shoot jacketed bullets first to brake in the barrel or start with cast from the start?

I'm new at this and need all the help I can get !!l

Thanks

Mr. Bill 

mrbill2

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CB posted this 16 September 2008

If you plan on doing BR shooting with the gun go with a fixed 36 power scope. I used to break in barrels for cast bullet shooting using the one shot clean, two shot clean routine with jacketed but the last few barrels I put on I just shot them with cast from the start and didn't notice any difference. I should mention that these were Shilen barrels.

 

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CB posted this 11 November 2008

Bill                                                                                                                                    

I would suggest you try and find a Weaver 36x scope either dot or crosshair for your 100/200 yd bench shooting. Weaver's are probably the easiest 36 to find now since so many were made. If you are on a budget Tasco makes a nice 36x see one on e-bay once in a while. Weaver's end up at NBRSA shoots also check Bruno's.

Stephen Perry

Angeles BR:fire

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pascalp posted this 12 November 2008

The weaver T36 is good, Leupold 35x45 is better, not the same price!

Go for what you can afford, and squeeze your groups.

I own both (and more), use both routinely,  segregate depending on rifle quality.

 

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 20 November 2008

Howdy...  I have used Weaver 36, B&L 36, Weaver 6-24, Weaver KT15 ....  all shoot * CAST * bullet groups about equally ... because most cast groups for most bench shooters are 1 moa or a little larger .... if you get them down to 1/2 moa or so, you should stick with the 36 powers.

Overall, for really small groups-I Hope ----   I prefer my B&L36 4200 series ... I think it has good resolution, and so far no funny business in the adjustments.  The resolution of the scope is more important than the big power... in fact, I use the KT15 a lot because it is not critical to objective setting, or eye piece focus, and the resulution ( to my eyes ) is really good.  It is my favorite to just clip on a new gun and go try some loads, because it is just not a hassle... and did I mention it has a little more field of view, so doesn

Regardless of brand, do not totally trust the adjustments ...  I shot rimfire ARA for several years, and there was * NOTHING * that proved non-moving... we sent back several weavers, even more Leupolds, Sightrons ( a good value, by the way ), keep in mind that these send-backs were because of jumping 1/8 moa back and forth, but cast bullet groups might not regard this as too important (g).

I should mention that there were a few Weaver 36 that had some kind of internal reflection ...   we sent them back, and in the nineties, Karen at Weaver service had us a new one ( or fixed one ) with a day or two ... excellent service ... not sure how it goes nowadays... not even sure who owns that brand.  But still a good buy for the bucks.

and if you get a chance to pick up a * working * Micro Trac Weaver steel T20 or T24, grab it, I got a T20 ( 1984 or so ) that is foolproof, sharp, and good resolution.  they are too heavy for modern centerfire benchrest, so are a terrific buy ( $250 or less .. if you get lucky ) ...

hope this helps.. ken campbell, deltawerkes

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mrbill2 posted this 20 November 2008

Thanks to all that responded to my post. I just did pick up (Tuesday) a Weaver CT36 with fine crosshairs, a 1/8” dot, 1/8 micro- trac adjustments. Made in Japan with screw on lens covers. So, now I have the new rifle and the scope. Still working on the perfect powder and bullet combo. But I'm getting better results each time I shoot the gun. Braved the elements and went to the range today but soon found it was too windy and cold, for me anyway. Going to be a long winter.

Thanks again for all the posts.

Mr. Bill 

mrbill2

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 21 November 2008

Please Mr. Bill .. (g),

Just a couple more thoughts, since you seem to really be going after those groups.

IMHO ( as opposed to being intrinsically correct ) I suggest that you Pillar Bed your rifle before you burn up any more ammo ( well, serious ammo ... because the bedding might change your loads anyway ... )...  Pillar bedding is pretty well understood nowadays, and a remmy 700 etc can be pillar bedded ( front and rear stock screws   )  in about an hour total work, and on your kitchen table ... Brownells sells good epoxy and also pillars, if you don<'t have some material laying around.  For a target rifle, I like the front screw pillar to be 3/4 or 1 inch diameter ...  the trick is to bolt the pillars to the rifle, then lower the rifle and pillars assembly down into some wells you have hogged out in the stock, these being filled with a good epoxy ( Brownells, Marine Tex, Devcon filled .....  not 5 minute stuff, not body filler ( Bondo ) ...  I use Kiwi clear shoe polish for release agent, and smear everything you don<'t want to glue together ..   I cheat a little, and leave some extra epoxy on my mixing plastic bag, and when that sets up but still a little flexy ( 1/3 to 2/3 hour at room temps... ) I loosen one stock screw at a time to make sure you can get them out later ... don't ask me why I fear this  ....... ( figured french walnut  )   if they can come out, I retorque them and leave for 3 days.  Also while still flexy, it's a good time to remove any squish-outs with a wooden or aluminum or brass stick.

One additional trick ... now if you don

Just some trivia, I got a black belt in trivia ; ken campbell, iowa

Also, usually it is good ( while bedding ) to space it up a little so that the barrel floats, at least from 4 inches in front of the front receiver ring.

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mrbill2 posted this 21 November 2008

Hello Ken

Well I should have mentioned this earlier. I'm going to shoot the rifle in the production class. As I understand the rules I am not allowed to alter the gun in any way. Has to be the way it was when it left the store. But that might be a good reason to buy another gun. Don't say nothing to you no who. :D

Thanks

Mr. Bill

 

mrbill2

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CB posted this 22 November 2008

Mr. Bill, you have touched on an area I can help you with, I shoot production class.

Depending on which rifle and caliber you are planning to shoot will determine how to proceed.

If you have selected a 308 I have a lot of load and bullet data.

As for the gun, you can bed the rifle, recrown but that is about it. You cant not alter the rifle to allow it to make weight, 12lbs is the max for production.

You can have the stock trigger reworked to smooth it out. You can also change the throat angle.

What caliber did you select and what brand did you buy?

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mrbill2 posted this 23 November 2008

Hello Jeff

The rifle is a Rem 700 SPS Varmit in 308 Win.  Bullets I am working with are Lyman 311467, 311466, 311644, RCBS 30-180-FN. All bullets are cast from 100% wheelweights. Bullet lube is Lyman Alox.  Powers that I have tried are Unique, IMR4227, SR4759. So far the best combamation that the gun seems to like is 17 to 18 grs. of IMR4227 with either the Lyman 311467 and the RCBS 30-180-FN.  I have just gotten the Lyman 311466 mold. I have only cast those, not been able to shoot any.

But now that the weather has turned colder in my neck of the wood my time at the range will be limited. To cold for the old bones 66.

Mr. Bill

 

mrbill2

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CB posted this 24 November 2008

I was looking at one of those at one point... Never did act on the impulse to buy though.

First thing you need to do is to slug the throat and the muzzle. I have heard that some of the Rems have poor bore diameter consistency. If this proves to be okay then you will have the throat dimensions you need to figure out what you need to size the bullets at. There is a very small section of that throat slug called the free bore and that is the diameter you what to size your bullets to.

I believe that gun has a 1-12 twist barrel, I have found that your bullet choice is a function of length as it relates to barrel twist, the weight of the bullet really doesnt matter that much.

If you do not throat the rifle, you need to use a bore ride bullet such as your RCBS 180 SP. You need to plan to shoot it in the 1600 - 1800 fps range which you should be able to do with the powders you have tired so far. 

I go through a lot of extra little things to try to squeeze all of the accuracy I can out of the gun I shoot production with. I do have the rifle bedded, I also have the throat cut to 3/4 min and use a bump press to taper the bullets to fit the throat. There are various methods to achieve the taper on the bullet. I also have gaged the chamber to find the length and make my cases from 30-06 brass because my chamber measures out at 2.039 instead of the spec of 2.015 listed in the reloading manuals as the case length spec.

Being that you have a new rifle, it will take some time to break it in so it will shoot for you. Shooting some jacketed bullet to break off all of the sharp edges from the manufacturering process is okay and will help speed up the break in process. Make sure you clean all of the copper out of the barrel before you start shooting lead.

The other item I see that you can make am improvement is your lube. alox is good, but a synthetic soft lube will give you better results. You want the lube to spin off on muzzle exit and a synthetic will not burn and gunk up your barrel with undesireable fouling.

If you water quench the ww bullets, you will increase the hardness which is what you wil need to do for competition. Most shoot either heat treated wheel weights or lino to get the hardness up to around 18-26 bhn.

Fixed or variable power on the scope wont make a difference, I have a fixed on one rifle and a variable on the other. Never have turned it down.

Your front rest and rear bag will be very important in getting the most of your rifle. I have modified mine to be wider and heavier and use a rear bag that has a thick leather base to keep it square on the bench.

Once you find the combo that works best in your rifle, all you need to do is practice and make sure you pay attention to every detail and repeat each action of how you shoot the rifle each time. That is more important than having the perfect load.

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