First Cast

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  • Last Post 29 April 2008
Calehedron posted this 24 April 2008

My Lyman 429667 4 cavity moulds arrived yesterday but my Lee pot got delayed until tomorrow.  So... being the impatient guy I am, I fired up the gas burner and dutch oven and mixed up a batch of WW and 95/5 solder to give them a run.

I boiled the molds in soapy water then clean water first thing this morning before I went out junkyard diving for more WW.  When I got home I sprayed the moulds down with the Frankford Arsenal stuff (didnt know it was BLACK paint in a way).  Melted down my muffins and solder and cast up 160 bullets, a few fishing sinkers, and some ingots of my my new mix.

I have about 20% that are a tad grainy or didnt quite fill out at the butt end and looks too rounded for my taste.  Other than that I am very pleased at how well my very first try turned out using pot and ladle.  Tomorrow when the Lee 4-20 bottom pour comes in, I will be a casting machine.

Gonna give the ingots and “bad” bullets a few days to mature and see how my hardness turns out.  I did water quench also since these are going in my Super Redhawk and I would like to see how well they can perform at full magnum loads.

:lovecast:

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CB posted this 25 April 2008

Well Hey Calehedron;

    Those bullets sure look a heap better than most produce on first try. It is sweet that rejects simply become memories with no great loss. The particular bullet you are casting is one used here, in Florida, to play Lawnsteel and shoot hunter pistol silhouette. That design in 38 is what I am using on steel. Your plan to push them at magnum velocity is interesting to quite a few of us. We do know these bullets are very accurate at speeds under a grand and are defiantly the snizzel to carry steel. What are you intending to whack?  Please keep us posted.

                                                                                      Roy

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Calehedron posted this 25 April 2008

Its more of just of a study of the bullet properties, pressures, and accuracy over long distance on this first batch or two.  My normal load for this bullet when I bought them commercially was 11-12g of Blue Dot and they shot real well at 50 yds with my Leupold scope mounted.

I loaded a few up to the max of 16g and they were a bit of overkill but no leading or very little occured and they left a small lead ring around the mouth of the brass.

I guess to sum it all up, just being a first time caster I am trying to figure out all the ins and out, what bullet flys better for each application, and hardness and pressure effects on them.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 25 April 2008

Hi, I would like to know the rear band and also nose diameter of that mold, in your alloy you mentioned.

The photo'd bullets look really nice, good shooting.

thanks, ken campbell, iowa

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PETE posted this 25 April 2008

 I would agree with you that the base bands are to rounded. They should be nice and square with an edge you could cut yourself with. The bullet second from the right appears to have a wrinkle in it. Both conditions would indicate your alloy wasn't hot enuf.

  Depending on how many bullets you cast before getting those in the pictures, part of the problem might be the mould needs breaking in. This can take anywhere from a few bullet to a hundred. When casting I also automatically throw back the first 10 or 15, depending on the mould, to get the mould up to temp.

  If you don't already have one a thermometer is very useful.

  All in all tho your first attempt is not to shabby. Way back when I started out casting round balls for ML'ing and I'll guarantee you your bullets look better than my round ones did.

PETE

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CB posted this 25 April 2008

I'll put in my two cents.    Don't try to cast a 4-cavity mould with a ladle. I know you were jumping the gun, but ladle casting is not quick enough for the big mold. You'll never get the moud hot enough. A 'production' pot is just that and the bottom pour is the only way to pour 4 or 6 cavity molds.

I used some similar coating years ago as the FA release treatment and dropped it. Lead casting cb molds do not need to be coated or treated. It'll build up if you keep using it. You need to keep the molds dry and clean. The little vent grooves on the face of the blocks especially need to be kept free of any material, derbis, etc. Hope this helps;   things I've learned the hard way!  :shock:   ................Dan

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Calehedron posted this 25 April 2008

Yes, I was just a bit impatient.  My gas setup only hit about 650 and now my Lee pot is fired up and in full production. The bullets using my 19.5WW and .5 95/5 solder is now running at about 725-750 and casting much better. 

Demensions of my water quenched bullets are .432 at base and upper band.  Nose is about .285. OAL of the bullet is .715 and I averaged 30 bullets on my scale at 247.8 with one high flyer of 251, most stayed 247-249.

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runfiverun posted this 25 April 2008

i shoot that same bullet in my 45 colts you will like it, have shot from 750 fps

in the colts and up to 1550 in the 92 rifles, same 2/4 mix no wquench.

and a hard lube. i couldn't find the 44 mold so i went with a similar g/c

44 mold and it does what that design in the 45 does exact same load.

i just move the powder dump from the 45 to the 44 and load them .

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Calehedron posted this 26 April 2008

PETE wrote:  I would agree with you that the base bands are to rounded. They should be nice and square with an edge you could cut yourself with. The bullet second from the right appears to have a wrinkle in it. Both conditions would indicate your alloy wasn't hot enuf.

 

I agree whole heartedly on the wrinkle.. I guess it slipped thru my QA process ;).

As for the rounded bases, they are supposed to be a bevel/rounded base by design.  The ones that didnt fill out all the way were WAY rounded and some wouldnt let the bullet stand on end. 

 

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CB posted this 27 April 2008

Hey Calehedron;

    For your study on the bullets, I can offer some data we have. The 44 in a Ruger new model, shooting steel targets at distances of 50 yards out to 75 yards. We are pushing them with 5 grains of Red Dot for a velocity of 825 fps. The hold at 50 is two inches under center, with a one inch hold over at 75. Lawnsteel targets are widely  scattered between these two distances and sight adjustments would only be very confusing. This particular design in 38 took second place in the big bore division, shooting in a production only tournament yesterday. I wish it was me that did it. The bullet has a real good whack for steel targets and is as accurate as any. State is next week and I plan to shoot this design in 38, all four divisions, I guess we will see. Go to the single shot portion in the forum and my POS is the Uberti rolling block, shown with this bullet design.   

                                                                                     Roy

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Calehedron posted this 27 April 2008

I'm dead in the water for a while.

Lee pot 4-20 flow control screw was stripped the first time I tried to adjust it when I switched from 44 to 9mm to get a slower flow for smaller cavities.  The threads were completely gone on the screw and I tried fixing the ones on the arm with a tap but they were stretched somewhere greater than 8-32 but less than a #10.  Couldn't find a truss screw with a big enough head to reach into the groove of the flow rod with it canting to the sides since the hole is hosed.  They really did a crappy ass job designing it the way they did.  Would have made a hell of alot more sense to e-clip the rod to the arm and use a nut or screw on the shoulder bolt on the lip of the pot.

Sent an email to Lee Precision since they have the 2 year guarantee but I have the fever and may head over to Sportsman's tomorrow at lunch and pick up a Production Pot IV to use as a backup/pure lead pot for my sinkers and jigs.  I am not too happy I only got about 500 bullets out before it took a dump on me.

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CB posted this 28 April 2008

Oh Well

    The production IV is all I've ever used. You will be happy with it. Since you are going to be in touch with Lee, go ahead and get a replacement heating element. It is inexpensive, easy to replace and sux much less when your pot takes you out of action. The flow is strictly a “feel” adjustment, but it's not hard to master. Through the years I have managed to acquire several extra pots, I hope you do too.

                                                                                  Roy

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Calehedron posted this 29 April 2008

Lee said they would take the 4-20 back and fix or replace it but I just had to keep casting so I bought a Production IV today at Sportsmans.  Now that is how a flow rod should be designed.  Why in the world couldn't they have just moved that same setup into the 20lb pot?  I like the better self control over the flow and not some jerky motion thats just stopped by an unhardened screw riding in a groove. 

I also saw a Lyman Pro Mag 20lb that looks real nice with the mould guide that you set the width and all on it and has a tray up top to set your moulds on to pre heat them instead of balancing them on the rim or using a hotplate.  It was $230 but the quality looked so much better.  I think I will save up my company's “goodie drawer” gift cards to Cabelas over the next few months and give it a try without spending “my” money.

I also have a post over in mould maintenance about why one of my moulds casts perfectly and one hasnt cast a good one yet.  Please take a gander and see what you think. 

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