Smallest,lightest cast bullet for deer ?

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jhalcott posted this 19 April 2008

I asked this question on another site and haven't got any replies YET. I have killed more than a few deer with cast bullets. using 7Mm thru 45-70 calibers and bullets from 168 grains(7mm) to 405 grains in the 45-70. Both handguns and rifles were used. IF the Lee 135 7MM bullet (soup can) can be shot at about 2400 fps ,WOULD it be a good deer bullet. ASSUMING good accuracy and ideal bullet placement.? I have heard of several guys using 150 grain cast bullets in the 30-06 with great success. MY 06 bullets are the 311291 and 31141 (170 grain). The 358315 &318 are used in the 35 rem and whelen. I like the 300fn RCBS and NEI's 405 pointed bulets in the 45-70. My normal alloy is a Lyman #2 copy at 15 BHN or a straight wheel weight alloy at 13 bhn. In the 45-70 I often use a 10 bhn alloy, depending on speed.

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shjoe posted this 20 November 2009

i have never tried it, but i have always thought that a decent 35 Whelan with a hard cast round nose bullet in the 250gr range near 1700fps would be more than adequate. “the load” with a 150gr flat nose may be fine and accurate out to 150yds or so. i would think that the light bullet would loose to much energy much beyond that, and not penetrate well. i will have to test that theory out one of these days on some wet phone books or a “box of truth". currently, i load up 180gr cast round nose 30-06 with R-7 with good accuracy through my M1917. havent tested bullet performance on live game yet.  best, john

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99 Strajght posted this 20 November 2009

I have used the following to kill white tail deer. 100 gr. Saeco in both 250-3000 and in 257 Roberts. 170gr. 180gr. 200gr. and 210gr. in 30-30 and 30-06. 248 gr. in 358 Win and 35 Wehlen. 249 gr. in 38-55. 240 gr. in 44 mag. 290 gr. and 405 gr. in 45-70. All with WW-tin lead mix. Yes I think the 7mm would do a good job to. My next deer project is going to be the 22 Savage High Power.

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Johnny Breedlove posted this 21 November 2009

The last deer I shot was with an RCBS 180 SIL. bullet backed up by RL #7. I think the load was 28 gr. Thay were chornographed at between 1700 and 1800 FPS. The first shot went through the lungs he did not run he walked about 15 ft and stopped so the next shot went through the top of the spine near the neck. Both shots were taken at between 80 and 90 yds. I was using a 1925 ventage 30-30 Rifle with a 25 inch barrel. On paper this load will shoot consistantly into 3” or less at a 100 yds.

 

PS Both shots went all the way through. The first shot made a bullet size hole on entering and a Quarter size hole on exiting this was a quarting shot about 45 degrees from the rear, It went through the ribs near the rear of the left lung through the front of the right lung and exited behind the right leg.

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shjoe posted this 21 November 2009

nice shooting and excellent performance on game.

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LWesthoff posted this 21 November 2009

Back about 50 years ago, when I was living and working in northwest Montana for a while, quite a few of the locals were in the habit of using .22 long rifle rounds (in either rifle or pistol) to harvest “government beef.” It was nice and quiet. During regular deer season, of course, they used 30-30 and on up. I personally would rather be 'way overgunned, than take a chance on losing a wounded animal just to satisfy my curiosity. I don't mind killing something if I have any kind of decent reason - but I'm not real fond of just hurting things.

Wes

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CB posted this 26 November 2009

I hunt in West Virginia on my property there with my Marlin 336 in 30-30. There are all sorts of bullet molds on the market, but I have a Ranch Dog mold for the Marlin Micro Groove rifling. It is 165 grains, I use an alloy softer than wheel weights, with a gas check, and this has been an effective combination for me.

My load is a simple one, 17 grains of IMR 4227 Winchester Brass with a CCI primer.

Jerry

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jhalcott posted this 26 November 2009

a gentleman told me HE used a 22 hornet to kill several deer in his garden with a cast bullet. He said they seldom went over 100 yards after the shot. 50 grain GC and 1900 fps velocity. Ranges were measured in feet to the deer, maybe 30 feet or so!

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CB posted this 26 November 2009

That is a really low powered round to use on a deer. The foot pounds of energy for that Hornet load is only 400, while my 30-30 is about 1,000

I would worry about a clean kill even at 30 feet.

Jerry

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Tazman1602 posted this 27 November 2009

In answer to how small a cast bullet for deer? I'm guessing thousands have been poached with .22 LR. As far as responsible hunting I don't think I'd want to be the “tester". I'll kill 'em to eat but I want them dead pretty quick and tracking without lots of snow is really tough in the woods and swamps.

Art

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hunterspistol posted this 27 November 2009

     To the immediate question, the new Winchester deer loads that I picked up for my 7mm-08  are 140 grain so, I'd say it's a safe bet.

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odicoilius posted this 03 December 2009

Personally I wouldn't use less than .30 cal rounds for cast bullet deer. As for weight, 150gr. is about minimum, yeah, sure you can kill an elephant with a .22lr under ideal conditions but conditions in the field are seldom ideal. Use flat points whenever possible or heavier 180gr.-210gr.(in 30 cal)round nose with a hollow point. The heavier bullets don't “blow up” with a hollow point if a reasonable alloy is used (about bh12-14).The heavier bullets retain energy much better, and kill about like factory 30/30s. Odicoilius.

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Von Gruff posted this 11 December 2009

I have a 162gn Lyman sil bullet for my 7x57 and in lino run it at 2415fps over 39gn H4350 for 1 1/4 - 1 1/2in 5 shot groups at 100. We often have multiple goat targets out to 200yds and I have always wandered how this cast bullet load might perform on meat. Anyone used lino on animals?. considering trying a soft nose on the bullet but if a straight lino bullet would anchor the animal suficiently quickly, would rather use it as is. Have spent a lot of time developing this particular load.

 

Von Gruff.

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Ed Harris posted this 11 December 2009

I feel a minimum is a flatnosed bullet with meplat not less than 0.6 of the caliber, not less than 115 grains, cast of suitable alloy which will expand and retain 70% or more of its original weight, at velocity not less than 1300 f.p.s. The blackpowder .32-20 would do it on average deer using a rifle within 50 yards if shots were well placed, but a .32-40 was very much better and a .44-40 was a more sure killer within its modest range limits.

Beyond 100 yards for typical deer sized game I'd want gaschecked bullets 6.5mm or larger over 140 grains and 1600 f.p.s.

If animals are expected to weigh over 150-lbs. I'd want not less than .35 cal., 180 grains and 1600 f.p.s. If likely over 200 pounds, then 200 grains of bullet and 1800. My two cents.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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jhalcott posted this 12 December 2009

So the 168/170 fn 7MM bullets I have been shooting around 1900 FPS would be good for deer at ranges below 100 yards?! This is good to know as I have used them on a bunch of deer with NO losses. All were hit in the shoulder or neck and few went more than 5 steps(heart shot). These were mixed bucks and does, some fawns also. None went over 150# on the hoof. The longest shot was just over 100 yards. I even used a few at much less velocity with equal results. That was a culling operation in a populated area.

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Ed Harris posted this 14 December 2009

I've shot maybe a dozen deer with cast bullets in the .30-30 over the years, mostly using wheelweight alloy at 1750-1950 f.p.s. All were recovered within 50 yards after running a short distance if not busted up on the spot. Factory loads in the .30-30 do the same thing and are sure, but not instant killers.

In following your deer it helps to mark each blood spot with a pencil-length stick and tuft of tissue paper as you go. If you “lose” the trail just “connect the dots” shining your flashlight along the backtrail, or if that fails search in small increasing concentric circles around the last blood spot until you find your deer. A blue or green LED flashlight makes blood splatter much more visible.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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odicoilius posted this 16 December 2009

To: Von Gruff,I wouldn't use lino on game unless head/spine shots are taken. Two things are likely to happen, one,the bullet will whistle right on through like a fmj or two, it'll hit a bone and blow up like a grenade.Lino is just too hard for proper expansion. Better to use a softer alloy and give up a little accuracy 2” groups are all that's needed for deer-sized game at the typical cast bullet ranges. --only my opinion. Odicoilius.

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leadhead308 posted this 24 June 2011

I agree the linotype being to hard for body shot , just on what ive read on the subject, but ive been loading linotype in .308 with hornady gas checks ,C 309-170-F lee mold, lee liquid alox lube, loaded with 39.5 grains 748 winchester powder, average 2177 fps on a 70 degree day. Can easily keep shots in 4inch circle at 100 yards. I like head shots just for the simple fact of no meat loss. Only shot at paper, but will try this season on deer. I like linotype with gas checks for faster loads, less leading more shooting at range with better accuracy.

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6pt-sika posted this 24 June 2011

The smallest I've used has to be the Ranch Dog 311-165GC in a 30-30 .

 

However I always wanted to use the Lyman 311316 in the 32-20 if I kept shots to no more then 50 yards with a stiff load of H-110 and shot from a Marlin lever with a 20” or longer barrel .

 

As well as the Lyman 257325 in the Marlin 25-36 I had .

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Mnshooter posted this 11 July 2011

My own feelings are that the alloy is more imprtant than the weight. I use a flat point bullet that weighs in at 188 grains in my 30-30 at around 2000 fps + or -and it has performed well at over 140 yards. I also have a 150 grain mold for the rifle and have often wondered if that would not work. Big thing is that my alchemy for bullet casting gives me bullets that expand. I water drop a soft alloy of about 1/2 WW and lead and then place the bullet bases in water and anneal the noses. With the 188 grain load mentioned, I would not be afraid to shoot a 200 pound + buck as it performs similar to the old 303 Savage which was used on larger game. Elk have been taken with 30-30's and 150 grain bullets with good shot placement. While some may want to use a heavier caliber I am just pointing out that there is a certain trend today to use more powerful loads than granddad used.

DP

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mtn_runner posted this 13 July 2011

I have a friend who lives in a suburb of San Francisco who accidently killed a blacktail deer with his pellet gun while trying to shoo the critter out of his landscaping without disturbing the neigbors.

Personally, I use a 195 grain FNGC pushed at 1850 to 1900 fps in either 30 30, 30 06 or 7.5x55 for mule deer and a 260 grain RNGC pushed at 2000 fps in a 348 winchester for elk.

I am interested in having critters drop as quickly as possible once they are hit and these loads generally do the trick.

 

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