Lee Metford Load

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  • Last Post 29 December 2010
batjka posted this 08 February 2008

Gentlemen,

I have recently acquired a Lee Metford Speed Patent rifle. The bore looks bright and shiny. I went out to try it with some surplus ammo.  The bullets were hitting at about POA at 100 yds. However, all bullets keyholed. Not totally sideways, but still were hitting the target at an angle.

When I put a bullet in from the muzzle end it went in all the way to the driving band.

So I decided to handload the rounds. Bought a bunch of reloading equipment: Lee Hand press, 303 dies (neck and FL), crimping die etc. I've never reloaded before. Found a guy that sells .314 cast bullets for $35 + $9 shipping.

I am looking for a load that could work with this rifle. Powder type, amount, the works.

As I am new to this matter, any help with developing an appropriate load will be appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

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Mike H posted this 09 February 2008

For bullets up to 200 grains weight, I would try 18grs 4227, 20grs 4198, 28grs 4895. Barrel  diameter, internal, is important. Your bullets may be a good fit, or they may not be. Try what you can find. Personally I like to see moderate loads in those old rifles, some of the surplus mil ammo will shake them around too much.

 

 

 

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dromia posted this 09 February 2008

I'd take a throat, bore cast or slug first so that I knew what I was dealing with and then get bullets to suit.

Bullet fit first then the powder loads.

My Lee Metford likes the Lyman 314299 GC coming out at .314” with softish range scrap WW alloy, the softer 10-11 BHN Cabine Tree hardness tester, sets up better in the shallow Metford rifling.

I'd go with Ed Harris's universal 16gn Alliaint 2400 as a starter, or my UK derivative 17.5 gns Vihtavuori N110 :D

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batjka posted this 09 February 2008

Thank you for your replies. I was thinking of getting 2400, Unique or Red Dot for this purpose. I will probably follow Ed Harris's advice on 16 gr of 2400 or 13 gr of Red Dot.

I believe the casting guy is using Lyman 314299 mold for the bullets. He also asked to specify what kind of alloy to use - hard or medium. Guess I'll go with medium.

Throat and bore casts are beyond my expertise. Rather, I'm too lazy to mess with all that. I'll slug the bore. That's the simplest procedure. In any case, the bullet-in-muzzle test is an indication of the bore diameter. It dropped all the way to the driving band. So there was not enough grip to stabilize the bullet. RN bullet should have a better grip in rifling, so stabilization should be better.

Also, any advice on primers? Should I know something about them?

Are Lee Metfords and bolt-actions in general allowed in the UK? I thought everything got either confiscated or deactivated. What a shame for a former warrior nation!

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dromia posted this 09 February 2008

Any LR primer will do, no need for magnum. I'm actually using LP primers, can't categorically say there are better than LR but they are just as good and I've got 1000's on hand to use up. The are a tad shallower than LR so seat deeper but in miltary rifles the firing pins seem to have the reach, beware the odd pierced one and consequent gas blow back. Wear peeper protection.

I ususally use remington LR but have been trying some Russian stuff lately with excellent effect at a really low price.

Yes rifles are allowable here on your Firearms Certificate I have around 40 FAC rifles in my collection. Obsolete calibres such as .577 Snider and .450"/.577” Martini can be purchased with out a license, however if want to shoot them then they must go on your FAC.

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cz75bfr posted this 04 May 2008

Hello All,

I am trying to shoot a Lee Metford. Up to now it has not been a succes. The bore looks Ok. I purshased a 215 grain mould casting .313 bullets in Australia. I have loaded 52 grain black powder and 70 grains blackpowder (heavily compressed. At 50 meters all bullets keyholed. Alloy is a hard mix of WW and some softer lead. Bore is not oversize. Does anyone have suggestions how to cure this?

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giorgio de galleani posted this 05 May 2008

What type of rifling if any ,your old rifle has? Usually old enfields have very worn throats. You may see good rifling looking from the muzzle and have a terrible throat.

If the rifling is really OK ,I suspect your bullets are too small in the throat,.313 is for jacketed pills.

I think that fitting the bullet in the throat is the cure for your gun.I.e. loading the fattest bullet yout chamber accepts,WITOUT EFFORT in chambering.

Often old european chamber necks are too tight,so be careful.

Did you read the old stories of Frank Marshall and his Jaybore enfield that shot well with .318 bullets? I have the undersize Lyman 8 mm bullet he used  dueling with the Baron. 

Have you got the Fouling Shot index?

I think black powder fouling is not helpful,how does the first bullet from a clean barrel print?

I ordered from LBT a 315 dia 215 grs bullet with a short base and a lot of bands,I'll  post the results. 

I think that very soft lead obturates better undersize bullets with black powder.

I have (presently )three SMLE,and I am waiting to steal an Army&Navy sporter from a friend.Please let us know how you are doing ,shooting enfields is an infectious chronic disease.

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giorgio de galleani posted this 05 May 2008

Mistake-mistake!!

The bullets I ordered from LBT have short nose and many base bands,I Think that long nose bullets are for new tight bores,expecially two grooves. 

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Ed Harris posted this 05 May 2008

cz75bfr wrote: ...I am trying to shoot a Lee Metford...mould casting .313 bullets in Australia. I have loaded 52 grain black powder and 70 grains blackpowder (heavily compressed. At 50 meters all bullets keyholed.  Alloy is a hard mix of WW and some softer lead. Bore is not oversize. Does anyone have suggestions how to cure this?

Don't use blackpowder!   Use not smaller than a .314-.315 bullet cast fairly soft of  50-50 wheelweights and plumber's lead, Try 15 grs. of #2400 to start, if the bullets “tip” increase the charge to 16 grs., but do not go exceed 18 grs. in any case.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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cz75bfr posted this 10 May 2008

My Metford has a Metford barrel, that sort of speaks for itself. Metfords where meant for black powder. That is why I started with BP. I discovered the mainpart of the cast bullet was not bore riding. So I widened the mould a bit up in that part. I also used soft lead. Results where as bad as before. I went to the gunshop and bought Sierra matchking bullets 174 grain FMJ. At least these went straight through the target (BP 70 grains) I loaded 15 grains Vithaviuori N110. These load spread to much and came of to low. 16 grains N110 was better. Next will be 17,5 grains.

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.22-10-45 posted this 10 December 2010

Hello, cz75bfr. When you stated Metford's were ment for black powder, you are right in that they started out with that stuff...BUT you don't have to use it. I have an 1895 Winchester-Lee, straight-pull, sporter in .236(6mm) Lee-navy. It has Metford rifling. I have found H4227 & even better, IMR TrailBoss to group in 3/4” at 50yd. & 11/4” at 100yd. using the Ideal 245498 & scrap range lead. Best of luck!

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cz75bfr posted this 10 December 2010

Hi .22-10-45 It has been quit a while ago when I shot my Metford. Actually when it was shooting alright I sold it. I bought a Lee Speed in the mean time. Same problems. The cure for both rifles was quite simple. Use jacketed bullets. That is where they where they where made for. I use H&N 180 grains copper plated bullets over 70 grains heavily compressed BP. BP has a flash channel along the whole load. original loads had his too. Shoots like you have loaded nitro. At first I drilled this flash channel trough the heavily compressed load. Now I made up special tooling and compress the load whit chaneel in one. Why not loading nitro? 1)I like to come as close as to the original. 2)my club does not allow nitro loads at BP events.

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.22-10-45 posted this 29 December 2010

Hello, cz75bfr. Now that IS interesting! When you say “shoots like you have loaded nitro"..do you mean the fouling is reduced or absent? If so, this makes sense due to higher pressure/hotter flame. I had never heard of flash channel before. Good stuf!

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