A-XMR 4350/46-51Gr./180 rn c.b.

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  • Last Post 12 March 2008
GREYBEARD posted this 21 January 2008

:shock: Have not loaded C.B. for my .30-06 before. noticed on a print out with my lee dies, A xmr 4350 ( close to H 4350 burn rate) is suggested for 180 gr.LEAD projectiles. 46 to max. 51 grains.  is that not a LITTLE  warm???   anyone with any experience on 180 gr. c.bs with these powders  (shooting in a remington 700  and a post 64 model 70.   thank- you  GREYBEARD

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CB posted this 23 January 2008

Ya, that is warm.  I think Lee and Lyman both list these slow powder loads for hunters who need knock down power. 

If you look on the CBA website at the Military Rifle match score tech sheets, you'll get a good idea of what powders are popular and accurate. The same powder and load for the most common 200gr CBs will also work for the 180gr, just load down a little starting out. WW/tin alloy will shoot well all day up to 1,600fps or so. Linotype will hold up to about 2,100fps.................Dan

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GREYBEARD posted this 24 January 2008

Thank-you for the “heads up"DAN, will have a look at the MIL. forum. GREYBEARD (Glenn)

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CB posted this 25 January 2008

Hi Glenn,

I recognize who you are. I was wondering when you signed on from the 'other big island'!  :)       Say hi to RA.  :)

The match data sheets will tell you what powders work well for accuracy, better than the Lee and Lyman manuals. That has been my load source since I joined in 87.  If you ever use 4227 for CBs, be sure to use an over-powder wad like a tuff of Dacron to keep the powder against the primer. I know two people who have blown up rifles using 4227.................Dan

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R. Dupraz posted this 25 January 2008

Dan:

Your reply regarding IMR 4227 blowing up rifles deffinately caught my attention! I have been using this powder in my Isralie 98 .308 for the military matches  and a Marlin cowboy 38-55 for lever silhouette for a while. No wads or filler, just primer, powder and cast bullets.

Also am about to start using it in my CPA-Stevens 38-55 for Schutzen matches. How about some details?

RD

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CB posted this 25 January 2008

RD,

The two shooters are veteran handloaders and both know well enough what a double charge is or something else gone wrong.  They both had shot 4227 a lot, one exclusively. They did not use an OP wad cause they were more concerned with accuracy, not completely concerned with the chance of denotation of reduced powder charges. The one description of the blow up was like a stick of dynamite, complete destruction and fragmenting of the receiver ring and barrel and stock. He sent it back to Savage and they say they never seen such a disaster before. They verified that a double charge would not have done that.

I think that is why H110 and W296 are recommended to never be used in a reduced load, only full charge - maximum loads to be use in pistol cartridges. I'm not afraid to use 4227 in my CB loads. I use either a sill plate foam wads punched out from the strip or Dacron tamped down over the powder. I'm currently using 4227 in my Sprg 03 in the 30-06 case for military matches. When my 3 or 4 pounds are gone, I won't use it anymore. I think 4227 would really be good in cartridges like the 22 hornet, 25-20, and 32-30 and be safe without a wad?

I think detonation comes from a large over-size case capacity. Under just the right conditions at ignition, the powder doesn't ignite correctly (just kinda burns because of light pressure load).  Then with the excessive air, it then forms a second condition with super saturated mix under pressure this time and detonates, instead of just igniting.................Dan

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R. Dupraz posted this 25 January 2008

Dan:

Interesting. Some more things to think about. I have been using IMR 4227 for quite a while in these guns. The reason being is that after looking for CB loads in some older Lyman manuals, IMR 4227 showed up frequently and as being the most accurate in this cast bullet data. I have found this to be true.

I do know of one case where a rifle barrel was “blown". Both of these guys are friends and the rifle was a brand new Marlin CB 38-55. One, a long time gunsmith and shooter, loaded some rounds for the other's new rifle and upon firing the first shot, the chamber end of the barrel blew apart and basically detached itself from the reciever. No one was hurt however after doing some investigating,it was learned that the powder in the measure was left in there after some pistol ammo was loaded. Don't recall now what it was but instead of Al's usual rifle load for his CB, a case full of fast pistol powder was used.  

What calibers, charges, cases and bullets were these guys using? Were any remaining rounds broken down and checked. From everything that I have ever been able to find out about this detonation thing, the ballistic engineers can't even give a definitive answer as to how these happen. Just too many variables including the reloader himself.

Your are right about the Hornet. I have a Ruger 77/22 Hornet that got rebarreled with a heavy Wilson tube and chambered in the K-Hornet after it came home. And that little rifle will put them all on top of each other a 100 yds when loaded with a 45 gr Sierra and a full charge of IMR 4227.

RD

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AMMOe posted this 01 March 2008

GREYBEARD wrote: :shock: Have not loaded C.B. for my .30-06 before. noticed on a print out with my lee dies, A xmr 4350 ( close to H 4350 burn rate) is suggested for 180 gr.LEAD projectiles. 46 to max. 51 grains.  is that not a LITTLE  warm???   anyone with any experience on 180 gr. c.bs with these powders  (shooting in a remington 700  and a post 64 model 70.   thank- you  GREYBEARD"

I don't know if that load can be considered too warm. My Lee manual shows the 51.3 grains of XMR-4350 to be the starting load with a 180 grain jacketed bullet listing 2389 feet per second. I'm sure 44 grains would be low velocity and low pressure. ~Andy

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GREYBEARD posted this 05 March 2008

:cba:Thank you for the reply. tried the starting load and it works just fine. Have not been in HARDIN for some years. Was down last to see “CUSTERS LAST STAND” and stayed at CROW AGENCY.         Great ares    .   GREYBEARD

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Scott Merchant posted this 05 March 2008

GreyBeard

Try some AA5744 it works from low velocity to hunting velocity, and you don't need a filler. It's not sensitive on powder position as some of the other powders are. 

Good luck Scott  

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AMMOe posted this 12 March 2008

GREYBEARD wrote: :cba:Thank you for the reply. tried the starting load and it works just fine. Have not been in HARDIN for some years. Was down last to see “CUSTERS LAST STAND” and stayed at CROW AGENCY.         Great ares    .   GREYBEARD ”

I guess you have been here! I work within eye-sight of the battlefield. Neat place.

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