Well guys, once again I've learned a new lesson in this casting craft. After years of rounding up wheel weights, plumbing lead and scraps of this and that I decided I'd quit fighting the endless fluxing and mixing trying to get my FrankenAlloy to preform like I wanted it to. I went on line to the folks at RotoMetal and ordered eighty pounds of Lyman #2.In anticipation of smooth sailing, I tore down my Lyman Mag 20 bottom pour and gave it the thorough cleaning it had needed for a while. Okay, cleaner than new. I melted down fifteen pounds of my new found wealth, gave it a stir and a top skim and set to casting. What the heck? The pots leaking like a sieve and the bullets have the same dirt inclusions as dirty wheel weights. I sat the mould down, took up my fluxing spoon and started adding candle wax. Well, I guess it being my first time using certified alloy I had expected it to be somewhat clean. The #2 was as dirty as salvaged plumbing lead, there seemed no end to the gunk coming up. After fluxing the pot thoroughly three times the pot quit raining alloy, even quit dripping. What should my next move be? I'm thinking of getting out the cast iron dutch oven and giving the remaing sixty five pounds a good sawdust fluxing. I just hate to think I'm taking out tin along with the gunk. Being new to this alloy, I guess I was expecting it to be cleaner at the price. Live and learn, I'll get it cleaned up. Gp
Certified alloys
- 932 Views
- Last Post 11 December 2016
interesting .... during a period when i was trying to get small groups with cast, i bought all taracorp mag alloy ... it was clean and uniform ....
hope some other users chime in ; i have been toying with the idea of going back to rotometal pigs again...
fwiw so far i have been lucky with misc. lead from ebay suppliers .... good enough for plinking at least...
ken
Attached Files
Ken: I've also been lucky with my purchases of alloy from friends over at Boolits. I bought 125lbs of linotype last week for $212 delivered. Not pigs but in the line type and very clean stuff. It tested 22+ with my Saeco tester. Gp
Attached Files
I'd give Rotometal a call.
A few years ago I order 50 lbs of Lyman #2 from them. They had a sale on at the time along with free shipping besides.
After getting the boxes and weighing the ingots, I discovered that the total was three pounds short so I called. After explaining the problem to the owner on the phone and visiting a bit, he said that the missing ingots would be set my way. No problem. Wasn't long and they showed up at my door.
The metal was exceptionally clean with no crud whatsoever and tested as advertised.
My only experience with those folks but could be that they would want to know about your problem.
Attached Files
Bummer. First time in many years I've ever heard anything negative re. Rotometals. Been to their shop. Always a good thing. Sounds like somebody messed up!
Attached Files
I been on live chat and E-mail with Dave. Sounds like they will get to the bottom of this. Most likely will work out. Gp
Attached Files
I have had zero problems with Rotometals Certified Lyman #2 alloy and have used several hundred pounds of it. I find it immaculately clean to the point that starting a new potful, ~15 pounds of ingot, in my clean Lee 4-20 bottom pour that I can melt, stabilize temp with my outboard controller and cast 14 pounds of it without fluxing at all when I am using a 6 cavity mold. I just cast till I get down to about 1/2 inch in the pot. No fluxing till I refill the pot with sprue and ingot and start a new potful. It is the sprue that needs flux, not the ingot.
Gary
Attached Files
Gary: Well, enough dirt came out of fifteen lbs. to more than fill a lyman ingot mould cavity. Something went wrong somewhere. I believe they will take care of it. I did melt the fifteen pounds in a squeaky clean pot. Gp
Attached Files
Okay guys this is how this worked out. Everyone at Rotometal was good to work with and friendly over the phone. We agreed that it was more trouble than it was worth shipping back and forth. They are going to ship me a ten more pounds of #2 to make up for the dross and I'll do my best to get the rest cleaned up. Would I rather have just had clean alloy? YES but they are trying to be fair so I'm just going to let it go at that. I'll buy from them again as they took me at my word that it was their alloy all the gunk came out of and they said they had no other complaints on that batch # Maybe I'll get lucky and the rest of the ingots will be cleaner. Gp
Attached Files
There is no dirt heavy enough to sink in lead and there is such sharpness of detail in the ingots I get from Rotometals that their temperatures are obviously well controlled to the point that any dirt in the ingots would float to the top and be clearly visible in a brand new ingot.
Dross is a pale tan powder finer than talc, caused by your pot being hot enough to oxidize Tin. Your pot does not get hot enough to oxidize Lead. If you have particles bigger than that, the source will not be difficult isolate or identify in your pot or your handling.
The high quantity you mention suggests you ran you pot over 800 F. and are left with oxidized tin and baked old petroleum flux from your pot cooked into a mess. If you have sand or gravel chunks of anything it is not from RotoMetals ingots.
The sawdust flux method, if done correctly only leaves pale wood ash. You won on the customer is always right politeness from Roto, but I remain completely unconvinced.
The only Lead or Lead alloy ingots that are cleaner than RotoMetals are laboratory grade and cost well over 2x the price. The difference between lab grade and RotoMetals is less than 1% at most. The volume of mess you have is more than 1%. Rotometals know that doesn't come from their work. I believe your dissatisfaction is misdirected.
My procedure with Roto #2 is simple. Don't bring pot up fast, use good temp control slowly to 725F for #2 as higher than that definitely oxidizes Tin and the hotter you get the more tin oxidizes at a higher rate. My digital control is outboard and will stabilize and not allow the metal to get hotter than 726 when set at 725. My mold is sitting top of the pot and when metal stabilizes at 725, I simply cast. Bullets go in a pan with a dry towel and all sprue goes into a clean aluminum brownie pan for the next full pot melt. I don't add sprue to pot while casting as temp fluctuation is severe and effects bullet quality.
Gary
Attached Files
Well, I guess I'll just rely on your clairvoyance and self assured omniscience on this one then Gary. The folks sure missed the mark in not naming you Richard. Gp
Attached Files
Ask a metallurgist, I did. Roto certifies their metals at 99%+ and they do that well, you haven't hurt them at all to anyone that understands what 99% pure means.. You have trash talked and besmirched RotoMetals after you contaminated their alloy.
Gary
Attached Files
My apologies guys. Please delete previous post. Gp
Attached Files
Sorry you are struggling with Lyman #2, GpIdaho.
Yeah, who wants to waste time messing around with nasty ol' wheelweights? Send them to me? :D
My suggestions for whatever they are worth: -- if you must pay the going rate for bullet metal, reclaimed shot is the best bang for the buck. It comes in various grades of not-cleaness and requires substantial stirring and fluxing, but once past that step it casts and shoots similar to hardball, or can be heat treated to 35 - 40 BHN.
-- A Lyman or RCBS ladle (not the Lee dipper, and not a Rowell ladle) with the orifice drilled out #21. Nothing wrong with bottom pouring if it works with a particular mold, but ladling is more reliable, and none of my ladles have ever leaked.
-- I can't second guess your contamination problem from a distance, but would not rule out the pot being part of the problem. I've had older pots that seemed to continually create crud no matter how many times I fluxed and scraped. Marvelux in particular seems to mess up some pots.
Attached Files
+1 on Roto Metals!!!! Love'em! I buy their 1 to 30 tin-lead for general use and blended 50-50 with wheelweights this makes a nice casting soft alloy with just enough tin to get full fill-out in a uniformly frosted bullet running the pot at 730+/- 20 degs. F.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
Do you think they use virgin metals?
Cheers from New Zealand
Attached Files
I don't believe I've ever purchased anything from Rotometals, I'm on their mailing list, but so far have been able to get the pricing I need close to home, so no purchases yet. I don't necessarily feel the need to use pure alloys for bullets. Maybe someday that will change.
Attached Files
Any and all issues I've had have been resolved and I would highly recommend Rotometals as a source of casting alloys. They are a first rate bunch of people to deal with and have my business from now on when in need of such alloys. PS Yes Jeff they do use virgin metals.
Attached Files
Just moving the thread back to the latest.
David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys, Good Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .
Attached Files
Categories
- All Categories
- General Polls
- Contact Us w/ Forum Issues
- Welcome to The Cast Bullet Association Forum
- General
- Bullet Casting
-
Guns and Shooting
- AR Platform
- TC Contenders & Other Single Shot Handguns
- Shotguns
- Informal Matches & Other Shooting Events
- Gunsmithing Tips
- Gun Cleaning & Maintenance
- Optics
- Benchrest Cast Bullet Shooting
- Military Bench Rest Cast Bullet Shooting
- Silhouette Shooting
- Postal Match Cast Bullet Shooting
- Factory Guns
- Black Powder Cartridge
- Hand Guns
- Lever Guns
- Single Shot Rifles
- Bolt Action Rifles
- Military Surplus Rifles
- Plinkers Hollow
- Muzzleloaders
- Hunting
- Reloading
- Buy, Sell or Trade
- Other Information & Reference
