I had heard a rumor, not fact as a lot of us have found, that there was a way to break in a scope reticle so that when it is turned it will truely move the way you want it to reliably. I recently went to the range and shot 6 sighters to tune in my group. Satisfied that my group was hovering around the aimpoint, I started shooting for score. The first 2 rounds were low and right 2", and so on through the next 8 shots. It just so happens that these were the last 2 adjustments that I made but only 1/2” both directions. Any idea what the fudge happened. The groups were the same diameter as the sighters, just off aimpoint. Very frustrating to have bad adjustments ruin scores.Any help appreciated.
Scope break-in procedure?
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- Last Post 26 May 2016
onondaga
posted this
23 May 2016
"it will truly move the way you want it to reliably.", when you have a good scope that tracks well.
You are noticing the difference of the tracking quality between scope brands and models. If you are trying to break in a scope to make it track better, it isn't tracking well. Complain to the manufacturer.
Consider the source of the rumor that has you think you can fix your scope by breaking it in.
I don't know if you have a scope that tracks well or tracks poorly. That is actually yours to decide for your own use.
I have had expensive, famous brand scopes that track poorly and I have had cheap scopes that track excellently.
A scope that lags behind your adjustments, or jumps when you change adjustment direction is a scope that is tracking poorly. A small lubrication error during manufacturing can even cause this, but there are many other reasons. The reasons don't matter to the shooter that wants the scope to track and it doesn't. The shooter just wants a scope that tracks.
A grid type bore sight is all you need to check your tracking. Well, you need to know how to count clicks too.
Also, consider that if you convince your self you have fixed a scope's tracking by breaking it in, what will you tell yourself when it acts up again? Break it in again????
If it isn't tracking well, it simply isn't tracking well. Get a scope that tracks well. They are not an impossible dream.
Gary
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Dirtybore
posted this
23 May 2016
Maybe it's not your scope. Target #3 has two shots low and left. Target #4 has 1 shot low but great windage. Target #2 has two shots low but once more, good windage. Target #5 has one good shot with good windage but one off to the right. The lower left target has two shots with great elevation but off to the right again. Your last, lower right target looks great.
Out of all those targets, you have 6 great windage shots. You also have 6 shots that are off to the right. This could be how your finger is pulling the trigger. Another though might be the size of your cross hairs. If they are thick, they could be covering too much of the target, making it hard to tell if you're exactly centered or not.
If that lower right target was your last target, be happy. a few days from now, try shooting that same load and bullet at the same distance and see what takes place.
Have you checked to make sure the scope screws are all tight? This sounds silly but I'd suggest checking them. :)
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Premod70
posted this
23 May 2016
Is your parallax adjusted properly? If so you may consider trying another scope just to see if your scope is staying positioned properly during the recoil phase; cheap scopes don't handle recoil very well when it comes to precision shooting.
Dale Flinchum
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onondaga
posted this
23 May 2016
cheap scopes don't handle recoil very well when it comes to precision shooting.
Here is an inexpensive scope you might call “cheap". It is a Bushnell 1.5 -4.5 with old standard Redfield Camlock mounts and extension rings on my Colt Sauer Grand African .458 Win Mag. Over 4,000 rounds fired with no difficulty holding zero and no difficulty tracking.
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Cary Gunn
posted this
23 May 2016
Karlrudin,
You might try taking your scope adjustments way passed the point you want, then backing up to your actual setting.
In other words, if you want to move point of impact five “clicks” right, move the scope knob 10 clicks right, then back up five clicks left to arrive at your desired setting. This procedure is supposed to help a recalcitrant scope better calibrate its mechanical movement.
I can't say with certainty that the system works, but it's the method I've always used and my scopes generally put bullets close to where they're supposed to go.
To Onondaga,
I, too, over the years, have found Bushnell scopes to generally produce results seemingly out of character in relation to their modest cost. I've always been happy with Leupold scopes, too, but they're pretty much at the opposite end of the price spectrum from the Bushnell line.
You're also correct in that higher cost is no guarantee of better results.
I have a buddy who recently purchased a relatively high-dollar Nikon brand scope, that -- straight out of the box -- would not take or hold adjustments. He got his money back, so he wasn't really hurt on the deal, but the experience sure wasn't a confidence builder in the old adage that quality follows price.
Happy trails,
-- Cary Gunn --
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onondaga
posted this
24 May 2016
Karlrudin,
You might try taking your scope adjustments way passed the point you want, then backing up to your actual setting.
In other words, if you want to move point of impact five “clicks” right, move the scope knob 10 clicks right, then back up five clicks left to arrive at your desired setting. This procedure is supposed to help a recalcitrant scope better calibrate its mechanical movement.
I can't say with certainty that the system works, but it's the method I've always used and my scopes generally put bullets close to where they're supposed to go.
Cary, going past the mark and coming back as you suggest might help most of all, to verify that you have a scope that tracks poorly. if you have to do that to adjust your scope, it isn't working properly and that method you use should be communicated to the scope maker in your complaint for repair or replacement under warranty. A scope that tracks as dialed is what is described in the owner's manual and is the standard for the product.
A scope that tracks well is not an impossible dream, it is what is specified for the product you own.
Gary
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Premod70
posted this
24 May 2016
cheap scopes don't handle recoil very well when it comes to precision shooting.
Here is an inexpensive scope you might call “cheap". It is a Bushnell 1.5 -4.5 with old standard Redfield Camlock mounts and extension rings on my Colt Sauer Grand African .458 Win Mag. Over 4,000 rounds fired with no difficulty holding zero and no difficulty tracking.
Dale Flinchum
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onondaga
posted this
24 May 2016
Evaluating the quality of a scope's tracking is the same for a long range varmint rifle as it is for an elephant rifle. Any of the scanner based programs that measure group center distance from point of aim will evaluate the tracking of your scope very accurately. Precision shooting has nothing to do with evaluating a scope's tracking quality. Precision shooting is related to the skill of the guy pulling the trigger.
Gary
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joeb33050
posted this
24 May 2016
I had heard a rumor, not fact as a lot of us have found, that there was a way to break in a scope reticle so that when it is turned it will truely move the way you want it to reliably.
It ain't true. Scope reticles don't need breaking in, can't be broken in, aren't broken in, break in isn't recommended or even mentioned by ANY scope manufacturer or anyone who knows anything about telescopic sights. It's not even a rumor, no responsible rumor-monger; and we have some champs, would ever start, invent, forward or respond to a rumor about breaking in reticles on scopes. Space aliens might mention it as they take the shooter up to the mother ship to examine his private parts. Has the nonsense detector broken down, again?
I recently went to the range and shot 6 sighters to tune in my group. Satisfied that my group was hovering around the aimpoint, I started shooting for score. The first 2 rounds were low and right 2", and so on through the next 8 shots. It just so happens that these were the last 2 adjustments that I made but only 1/2” both directions. Any idea what the fudge happened. The groups were the same diameter as the sighters, just off aimpoint. Very frustrating to have bad adjustments ruin scores.Any help appreciated.
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Premod70
posted this
24 May 2016
Evaluating the quality of a scope's tracking is the same for a long range varmint rifle as it is for an elephant rifle. Any of the scanner based programs that measure group center distance from point of aim will evaluate the tracking of your scope very accurately. Precision shooting has nothing to do with evaluating a scope's tracking quality. Precision shooting is related to the skill of the guy pulling the trigger.
Gary
I'd rather not turn this thread in a urinal demonstration so I will leave with this, what if the OP's scope tracks to perfection, what then?
Dale Flinchum
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onondaga
posted this
24 May 2016
” what if the OP's scope tracks to perfection, what then?"
If
Gary
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onondaga
posted this
24 May 2016
You can download the free version v 1.10 of “ON TARGET” to check your scope's tracking here:
To use the software to check tracking, shoot a few 5 shot targets with your best marksmanship, each target with counted click adjustments to the next target. Scan your targets with a scanner that is linked to your computer as you run the program. The location of group centers from target to target will correspond to your scope's specification for response to click adjustments if your scope tracks well.
If you get poor results, your scope is faulty and screenshots from the software will verify that for warranty work.
A scope with clicks that are 1/4 ” at 100 yards should do that as specified. It is not an impossible dream, that is what you paid for.
If you make 8 clicks to the right, the group center should move 2” right at 100 yards with eight 1/4” clicks, etc. If you get substantially different results, the scope is faulty.
Gary
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PETE
posted this
24 May 2016
Here's the way we check if we think a scope is suspect.
You'll need a piece of paper big enuf for the test at the distance you want to do the test. We use a 2' piece at 100 yds.
Fire a three/five shot group near the center. Move the crosshairs 4” to the right and 4” up. Fire a shot. Move the crosshairs 8” to the left. Fire a shot. Move the cross hairs 8” down. Fire a shot. Move the cross hairs 8” right. Fire a shot. Move the cross hairs 4” up and 4” left. Fire a shot. This shot should be in the three/five shot group.
If your not happy just keep going around the box until you are. If you go around the box three times you should have four groups in the corners and center about the same size.
Pete
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karlrudin
posted this
25 May 2016
Maybe it's not your scope. Target #3 has two shots low and left. Target #4 has 1 shot low but great windage. Target #2 has two shots low but once more, good windage. Target #5 has one good shot with good windage but one off to the right. The lower left target has two shots with great elevation but off to the right again. Your last, lower right target looks great.
Out of all those targets, you have 6 great windage shots. You also have 6 shots that are off to the right. This could be how your finger is pulling the trigger. Another though might be the size of your cross hairs. If they are thick, they could be covering too much of the target, making it hard to tell if you're exactly centered or not.
If that lower right target was your last target, be happy. a few days from now, try shooting that same load and bullet at the same distance and see what takes place.
Have you checked to make sure the scope screws are all tight? This sounds silly but I'd suggest checking them. :) Well to answer your comment, I was happy with the bottom right target. But it was my sight-in target. Everything was going great. Then the rest went down hill. :)
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karlrudin
posted this
25 May 2016
I'm going back to try the block method that y'all have mentioned along with the scope screws. And the mounts while I'm at it. Just to see if the Lock-tite has broke free. While no where near an expensive scope, it is a Tasco Varmint 6-24x40. That's what was in my budget. I've never had a problem with it up to this point and that's why I suspected it. I doubt that it is my trigger pull because 1st my pull weight is right at 14oz so there is no strain to move it off target. 2nd I learned a long time ago to call my shots when the trigger breaks. The cross hairs never moved that I could tell. I will evaluate though. Thanks for all the great comments guys.
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Wineman
posted this
25 May 2016
It seems as if we are seeing Zebras when looking for Horses. I still have not seen what load he was using, I am assuming since this is a Cast Bullet site, he was shooting cast bullets. Since we all know that a cast bullet load is much more subject to wind, bullet diameter, seating depth, hardness, lube, velocity etc., I might just suspect leading as the culprit rather than a long winded discussion on how we need a computer program to figure out our scope. If it were my rifle and scope I would do the following:
Check all the scope rings and bases for proper tightness. Make sure the scope is not “torqued” because of poorly aligned rings (use a 1” dowel to check for straightness).
Check the action screws and band screws for proper tightness.
Clean my rifle with a bronze brush, patches and a good bore cleaner. If lead is present, be suspicious of the cast load's properties.
Shoot a factory jacketed load at 100 yards and see how it performs (might need to re zero at a closer range if it is sighted in for cast). Do this on a calm day.
If the rifle/scope combo is still wonky, try another scope. If a jacketed load shoots to expectations, look at your cast load and make changes to reduce leading.
Start with the obvious first (loose screws) followed by the usual suspects (undersized bullets) and work up to the unlikely (poorly manufactured scope).
Good luck!
Dave
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Premod70
posted this
25 May 2016
I'm going back to try the block method that y'all have mentioned along with the scope screws. And the mounts while I'm at it. Just to see if the Lock-tite has broke free. While no where near an expensive scope, it is a Tasco Varmint 6-24x40. That's what was in my budget. I've never had a problem with it up to this point and that's why I suspected it. I doubt that it is my trigger pull because 1st my pull weight is right at 14oz so there is no strain to move it off target. 2nd I learned a long time ago to call my shots when the trigger breaks. The cross hairs never moved that I could tell. I will evaluate though. Thanks for all the great comments guys.
I still wonder if your scope's parallax is out of adjustment, the optical error can easily cause the errors you're facing.
Dale Flinchum
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karlrudin
posted this
25 May 2016
It seems as if we are seeing Zebras when looking for Horses. I still have not seen what load he was using, I am assuming since this is a Cast Bullet site, he was shooting cast bullets. Since we all know that a cast bullet load is much more subject to wind, bullet diameter, seating depth, hardness, lube, velocity etc., I might just suspect leading as the culprit rather than a long winded discussion on how we need a computer program to figure out our scope. If it were my rifle and scope I would do the following:
Check all the scope rings and bases for proper tightness. Make sure the scope is not “torqued” because of poorly aligned rings (use a 1” dowel to check for straightness).
Check the action screws and band screws for proper tightness.
Clean my rifle with a bronze brush, patches and a good bore cleaner. If lead is present, be suspicious of the cast load's properties.
Shoot a factory jacketed load at 100 yards and see how it performs (might need to re zero at a closer range if it is sighted in for cast). Do this on a calm day.
If the rifle/scope combo is still wonky, try another scope. If a jacketed load shoots to expectations, look at your cast load and make changes to reduce leading.
Start with the obvious first (loose screws) followed by the usual suspects (undersized bullets) and work up to the unlikely (poorly manufactured scope).
Good luck!
DaveI would suspect the load, IF I had changed loads. This is a go-to load that usually prints less than an inch. Also not a temperature change because I've been using it at an average temp from 65-75 this year. Action screws were tightened and torqued prior to shooting. I DONT shoot jackets through this bore since its for lead. And my bullet hardness doesn't change since I always use the same alloy. Diameter of the bullets nose are .002-.004 larger than the lands with the base of the bullets being.001 larger than the bore. Seating depth is .125 seated into the land. Never changed the lube and velocity is about 1570 fps. I am suspecting the wind for the right or left since it was windy, but not the drop.
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Larry Gibson
posted this
25 May 2016
karlrudin
What bullet?
Velocity?
Wind speed?
Assuming the wind was coming from the left? If so from what direction (clock direction)? Was the wind blowing the same when the sighters were fired?
LMG
Concealment is not cover.........
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OU812
posted this
25 May 2016
The reticle is centered at the factory. With a new scope mounted on rifle I bore sight without adjusting the target knobs. If the scope is off too much I use the Burris Signature plastic ring inserts to adjust windage and elevation. Then I will adjust knobs.
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