Vihtavuori N310

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  • Last Post 06 April 2016
Eutectic posted this 27 March 2016

Vihtavuori N310 The Finns make very good powder, but their loading manuals are a bit strange. Cartridges come and go, loads recommended one year disappear the next and appear again years later. Lately 25 Auto, 32 Auto and 380 Auto have all disappeared from the current Vihtavuori manual. Counts of fired cases at the local range affirm they are still being used. Companies making loading dies are selling record numbers of 380 Auto dies. For many good reasons N310 was and is a prime choice for loading small auto cartridges. N310 loads in 45 ACP, having spent long years in the wilderness have appeared again. Many N310 loads in 38 and 44 Special, 357 and 44 Magnum and other pistol cartridges have vanished in the latest Vihtavuori manual. Of course reloaders never stopped using N310, my distributor says he sells a lot of it. Most reloaders do not throw away loading manuals, no matter what the manufacturer says. Now the internet has made old manuals available to new reloaders. So why is N310 so popular?     First, it is FAST, some 15 to 20% faster than current Bullseye. This means low charge weight, low smoke, low recoil. Second, it is a very small grain extruded powder, it flows like water and measures like a ball powder. Third, it is easy to ignite and burns exceptionally clean, even in reduced charges. Fourth, reduced loads produce very low velocity spreads, and position sensitivity is low. What is not to like? It is expensive! No getting around it, Vihtavouri powders are not cheap. Charge volumes of N310 are small, in many loads a dedicated small-charge measure is necessary to give adequate precision, both for safety and low velocity spreads. Here are some N310 low pressure “starting” loads. 25 Auto 50 gr jacketed bullet 1.0 gr 760 fps 32 Auto 71 gr jacketed bullet 2.0 gr 950 fps 380 Auto 90 gr jacketed bullet 2.6 gr 980 fps 380 Auto 100 gr jacketed bullet 2.3 gr 900 fps 38 Special 160 gr cast 3.2 gr 810 fps 44 Special 250 gr cast 4.4 gr 950 fps 44 Magnum 250 gr cast 5.6 gr 800 fps 45 ACP 200 gr cast 3.7 gr 827 fps 45 Colt 255 gr cast 4.2 gr 730 fps Vihtavuori lists maximum loads for N310, some at magnum pressure. However maximum loads with N310 are unproductive, there are better powders for high velocity. Normal and light loads with cast bullets and is where N310 really shines. If you want 44 special loads in a 44 Magnum, 38 wadcutter loads, 45 ACP target loads or light loads in any of the big pistol/rifle cases like 44-40 or 45 Colt, N310 is exceptional.  You need to be careful, N310 is fast and pressures rise rapidly as these 38 wadcutter loads show: 38 Special 148 gr Double Ended Wadcutter 2.0 gr 610 fps 2.3 gr 700 fps Normal pressure 2.5 gr 740 fps +P Pressure! The early Vihtavuori manuals list pressures the current manual does not. Pay attention, in early manuals some of the maximum loads are above current SAMMI maximum pressure. Later Vihtavuori manuals reduced the maximum loads in many calibers. Vihtavouri recently brought out N32C powder for cowboy shooters. It is slower and less dense than N310, giving higher charge weight and much larger charge volume. N32C is better for loading on progressive presses, where the larger charge volume gives better precision in a regular powder measure. I have not tried it, my distributor has not seen any N32C, not enough cowboys down South. Will N32C prove to be a better low velocity powder with cast bullets than N310? Will it be worth the extra money? Time will tell, but it will have an uphill climb. Standard warning: Check two sources of published data, I do and you should too. Users assume all risk, responsibility and liability whatsoever for any and all injuries (including death), losses or damages to persons or property arising from the use of any data. Neither I nor the Cast Bullet Association assumes nor authorizes any person to assume for it any liability in connection with the use of any data.  

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gpidaho posted this 27 March 2016

Love the Vihtavuori powders. You are correct in your statement that their early manuals contained some very HOT loads. Thanks for spreading the word. I haven't used the very fast powders because of the cost but am willing to spend the extra on their powders 3n-37 and slower. N-110 will burn lots cleaner than H-110 when not loaded to the top end and works very well for me in all magnum handguns and is excellent in the 30 carbine. In my 25-06 jacket loads N-160 is hard to beat. If you haven't tried VV powder give it a go, just use one of the newer load manuals. Gp

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Hamish posted this 28 March 2016

Great post, I've not used the V powders but I will be giving it a try in .25 and .32 ACP.

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noylj posted this 30 March 2016

My only issues with N310 are pressure spikes and accuracy is no where near as good as Bullseye, Red Dot, AA2, and 231/HP38 in my .45 Autos or .38 spl. Not saying that lots of Bullseye shooters don't find it great, but it hasn't been great for me. Keep the loads light and be very careful with charge weight.

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Eutectic posted this 31 March 2016

Yes, N310 gave poor accuracy in the maximum loads I have tried. It is very critical when loaded to high pressure. N310 is best in light loads at lower pressures. There are much better (slower) powders for normal and higher velocity loads.    I have not tried N110, mostly because I shoot very few full charge loads in 357 and 44 magnums. I use N340 and Power Pistol in moderate velocity loads in the magnums. Both work nicely with cast bullet loads in the 1000 to 1000 fps range. Nice to know N110 works well. I may try it when my 2400 runs low. I bought 3N37 for use in the 38 Super where it is an excellent powder. VV has included more loads for it the current manual. I need to get around to trying it in other cartridges.

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onondaga posted this 31 March 2016

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=6924>Eutectic

I am noticing that N310 is getting very similar praises to H.Titegroup. Small charges in big cases with good ignition, reduced load use, low position sensitivity etc. and more. These are the characteristics that sell H Titegroup.

There is one characteristic that is leaping the popularity of Titegroup and I am not sure how N310 fares in that application. Hodgdon now publishes low velocity and subsonic velocity lads in rifle cartridges, popular ones like the 300AAC, and much larger capacity ones too due to the very easy dependable ignition of Titegroup with tiny charges in large cases and those are the words that Hodgdon specifically uses to promote Titegroup.

Is N310 similar enough to be competitive with Titegroup in the same applications? Will it shoot 230 gr bullets in the 300AAC subsonic in a recommended load from Vihtavuori? Titegroup is also a vigorously recommended shotgun powder by Hodgdon. Is N310 a recommended shotgun powder by Vihtavuori?

I don't know this stuff about N310 but we already have these things answered well with H Titegroup and Titegroup is an inexpensive propellant with wide availability.

Do you use Titegroup?

Gary

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Eutectic posted this 06 April 2016

I have not used Tightgroup. Looks good, small grains, should measure well.

One of the problems with N310 is the scarcity of loading data. The starting loads for N310 are higher than they should be, lower charges work fine. Vihtavuori seems to ignore the loads it works best in. Lack of good data is hurting N310.

You can work backward from starting loads or estimate  from N320 starting loads which are much more numerous, but this is real experimenting.   My latest purchase is Trail Boss, I want to see if it will be a better light load powder for cast than Red Dot in 30.06 308 etc. Neat stuff looks like little Cheerios. So light a regular 1 pound bottle holds 9 ounces!

Spring is here outdoor ranges call.

Steve

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gpidaho posted this 06 April 2016

Steve: Interesting information about IMR TrailBoss. TrailBoss can be used in any rifle cartridge as a reduced load. Fill the case to what would be the base of the seated bullet and weigh this charge, this is max. TrailBoss hates to be compressed in any cartridge. Take 75% of max charge as a starting load and check for an accuracy load between start and max. This has worked well for me with TrailBoss although I haven't tried it in 50 BMG lol. Gp

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Eutectic posted this 06 April 2016

Yes, that is a real game changer for Trail Boss, no need to test and publish loads for every cartridge. Want light loads for your 40.5 x 0.05 meter wildcat? Here is the way! What a neat idea, made possible by the burning speed and low density. This is the reason I bought a bottle.  Steve   

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gpidaho posted this 06 April 2016

I should edit my post above to say that the information above from IMR is for jacketed ammunition and for conventionally lubricated lead rounds your start load can and most likely will be lower. Gp

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