An interesting and apropos article on how to handle "newbies"

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  • Last Post 19 April 2016
Jeff Suever posted this 04 February 2016

Hey all, Saw this article over on http://bearingarms.com/instructors-use-tact-in-tactical-training/>Bearing Arms, and while it is not cast bullet related, it is “human nature” related. Guessing this is the right sub-forum for it. I've met some really decent guys here and gotten into some great exchanges in my few posts. However, in combing through some of the older threads I did see a couple of comments about “we have to be nicer to new people” and “we need to be more welcoming if we want the sport to outlive us", etc. I've not experienced anything negative here or anything that would put me off(I'm bullheaded), but thought that article and an observation from a previous part of my life might be interesting. “Back in the day” I used to race bicycles. This was in the infancy of mountain biking. All the die hard cyclists decried it and said it wouldn't take off, wasn't a sport, etc. Within a few short years crit and road racing was waning fast and mt. bike racing....and the equipment sales it drove exploded. The same thing happened with skiing and snowboarding. Why? Because road cyclists and skiers were snobs and “purists". No one wants to have to “prove their worth” in a recreational sport. I ended up gravitating to Time Trial racing just to feed my need for competition and avoid the self righteousness. Or, as my wife told a tactless and rather rude squad leader at her second pistol match ever “You're not very nice and I don't want to play with you any more.” It was classic. So, thanks for being patient with us newbies. Be like the goalie that just keeps the ball in play or the gutter bumpers at the local bowling alley on “kids day". Keep things moving in the right general direction and we'll all see what happens. We really appreciate it(well, most of us do and the others are on their own) and who knows....maybe your great grandkids will need this information and we're the only way to get it from you to them. :) OK, turning off the self reflection switch now. :lovecast:

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delmarskid1 posted this 04 February 2016

Those are good thoughts. Thanks for taking the time to share your views.

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Maven posted this 05 February 2016

"This was in the infancy of mountain biking. All the die hard cyclists decried it and said it wouldn't take off, wasn't a sport, etc."

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oldblinddog posted this 05 February 2016

I'm a newbie on a couple of forums but I am most certainly not new to casting “boolits". I ignore snobbery...

USMC (ret.), CBA, NRA, TSRA, ARPC

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Jeff Suever posted this 05 February 2016

Delmar: you're  welcome... and I promise to keep it civil and not rant in the future. Shooting, reloading and casting has been a positive experience  for me so I hope to make it that way for others. Maven: I bet not. Great equipment can't overcome a lack of talent or training, eh? Sadly, I have reached the point where I must admit that Lycra is a privilege, not a right. Lol.

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Dirtybore posted this 06 February 2016

The gracious treatment of newbies and new women shooters is one of the reason I love the muzzleloader-rendezvous shoots. My wife even shot in competition and didn't stop until health issues slowed her down to a point that it wasn't fun anymore.

The center fire cartridge pistol matches appear to draw a different crowd and they get upset if a firearm isn't held just so, fired just so, and so on. No personal touch, just yelled commands given by a past army (wished they'd made sargent) range commander so new shooters or women just don't mix well with this environment. The more relaxed, time means nothing muzzleloader shoots just seems to make newbies and women more comfortable.

One thing I do with newbies, after answering their questions is recommend they buy a loading manual and if they are showing interest in cast bullets, then I recommend they get a cast bullet loading manual and join The cast Bullet Assoc. If it is muzzleloaders they are interested in, I've been known to meet them at the range and let them load and shoot mine. In several cases, I took them home and let them clean it afterwards. That way they knew exactly what they were getting into.

I also prefer to visit our local small range when there is 0 to 3 people on that range. This isn't possible on big city ranges where they have 20 stations and they each have shooters shooting there super pooper louder boomers and never having to move because they load, shoot, look through the spotting scope, load and shoots again, never changing a thing, over and over. A new shooter doesn't have a chance in that environment.

Back in the 1970's I took some friends to a local range, at that time being in SW Washington State, and tried to help them sight in their new rifle. It was next to impossible due to the above scenario. I got the sight close but they only had 1 box of ammo and the other shooters weren't interested in allowing us times to check our target. I was in college at the time and didn't have a spotting scope. Nobody offered to let us use their's either. I'd been shooting since I was 14 and that range scene really turned me off.

Much later in life, I visited a similar big city range and they explained how much their targets cost, how much a spotting scope would rent for, how long each relay was, and so on. They had no place for me to shoot my muzzleloader, didn't have appropriate targets for open iron sights, and I would only be able to retrieve my targets every half hour. Needless to say, I left, never to return.

My wife took 3rd in state, muzzleloader pistol back in 1995 with her 45 cal muzzleloader pistol. She also greatly enjoyed the relaxed atmosphere of the muzzleloading programs.

Safety can be stressed just as well in a relaxed and comfortable atmosphere rather than yelling curt directions that only confuses the less informed.

In any event, it is often how we say things and not what we say that can turn newbies and women off. Calm, courteous, and simple will win the day every time.

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Jeff Suever posted this 06 February 2016

Dirtybore wrote: Calm, courteous, and simple will win the day every time. You won't mind if I borrow that quote, will you? Might need to share it with a few folks at work.... and remember it myself.

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Wineman posted this 06 February 2016

Try getting into bowling on a league night. Talk about you are not wanted here and a dying sport, it makes most other “we don't want you here” pale by comparison.

I love my M1 but every time I knock it for its weight and ammo consumption due to the enbloc clips I get the pitchforks and torches. My contention was that the winning of WW2 was by the M1 AND by 100,000 airplanes, 100,000 M4 Sherman tanks and other AFV's, 1,000 capital ships, the sacrifice of America, Soviet Union, GB and everyone else on the Allied side. It was our industrial might and some technology that did the trick. If we had all carried Springfields would we have lost WW2? I doubt it. OK that is my opinion and I am sticking by it. That we get to keep and cherish such a wonderful piece of history is absolutely amazing. The number of M1's vs. number of flying B29's, running M4 Sherman tanks, or Balo Class submarines in use today is astounding. Like the old bull to the young one: “let's not race down the hill and get one cow, let's walk down and get them all” Patience with the new guy or the old guy with a new idea (think Lee collet dies here) is a virtue.

Dave

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Brodie posted this 06 February 2016

Personally I love to help new shooters gain confidence and competence in any form of our sport that I can.  When I started shooting skeet , trap, and sporting clays there was always the jerk who complained that the newbie was slowing down the course.  When I got more competent and comfortable with the course I did everything I could to help new people out.

When I was a range master for Action Pistol I did the same thing.  The jerk who has to have everything his or her way or they can't play is just spoiled and a pain to have around and they usually aren't all that good at their chosen endeavor.  Such folk usually blame their lack of performance on others, their equipment, the weather , the latest planetary alignment, but never were they responsible for their own mistakes.  That's why they usually are mediocre performers.

By the way: The new shooter or whatever is the LIFE BLOOD of your sport.  Not the old hand who will one day pass on.  If we don't help and encourage the “NEW GUY” we are cutting our own throats. Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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echale3 posted this 24 February 2016

Everybody is a newbie at some point, even the crusty old coot that's been at it since dirt was invented and forgot more about it than most of us currently know. I think everybody would do well to remember that.

I know that, for myself, I didn't have a good resource like this site (and others)to learn about bullet casting and because of that I wound up making lots of mistakes while on my way to having a pretty fair grasp of what I was doing.

It's worth considering that even though the questions the newbie asks may seem old hat to you, at some point you were the one probably asking that same question, and if you share your knowledge, that newbie may sidestep a mistake you made/learned from and come up with something new that moves all of us forward.

Then again, there's always some bullheaded so-and-so that completely disregards conventional wisdom and shakes the whole field up, LOL!

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MarkinEllensburg posted this 15 March 2016

What I have found astounding in forums is that folks generally equate new poster to rookie in field. The truth is that simply is not the case some of the time. Nearly everyone has something that they can teach others and we all can stand to learn something new, or at least entertain a new idea before discarding it. I don't know how folks that don't do both casting and reloading can afford to shoot! I have found shooters and reloaders to be a friendly group for the most part. Bullet casters on the other hand can't say I've met very many but I know there are lots out there.

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Hannahchem posted this 22 March 2016

Thanks for the details! Very impressive!   --Alfachemis

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karlrudin posted this 19 April 2016

I put off shooting or casting bullets for a long time. It seemed complicated, time consuming and not very rewarding afterwards according to some Jacket people I talked to. Then I took the plunge a few years ago and I haven't looked back since. This was mainly because of how helpful and forthcoming that most folks are in the casting/shooting community. Thanks for this from a newbie. Yeah, like I'm not a newbie after only 3 years. I've learned more about shooting and loading in the past three years than I have in my 40 years of shooting/loading.

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