Stainless pins for cleaning

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  • Last Post 08 January 2016
billglaze posted this 24 November 2015

It recently came to my attention, that when I tumble-cleaned my cases, I wasn't doing a thing for the insides.  And, I have reason to believe that there has gradually been a growth of deposits inside the cases, which regular media won't touch. With this in mind, I have bought  supply of “stainless steel” pins, that are supposed to clean the insides, as well as primer pockets.  My question, (realizing I should have asked the group first) is do you use this stuff with water/detergent, dry, or in some other manner.  I've got a Lyman tumbler, fairly industry-standard, takes 5 lbs. of corncob media.)Some of our knowledgeable folks seem to have a wire on this; I'm listening!  As usual, all suggestions receive a respectful attention.BTW:  the dealer also sells a magnetic “separator".  Since when is Stainless Steel subject to a usable magnetic flux? Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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mike0841 posted this 25 November 2015

Bill,

I am assuming that your Lyman is a vibratory type.  The pins will not work in this type unit.  They need a rotary motion like you get from a Thumler tumbler. 

Yes you need to use water and dish detergent with a little Lemi Shine added.  But you also need the correct tumbler.

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billglaze posted this 25 November 2015

Mike, I was afraid that I'd opened a whole new can of worms; you're right, my Lyman is a vibratory type with the usual plastic tub.   Now, I am wondering if I might as well think of going the ultra-sonic-vibratory type of cleaner, and be done with it, instead of picking up another type of tumbler?  If I were to do that, it seems to me that I might not need the steel pins at all; I don't know.  I'm not even sure that the ultra-sonic stuff works as advertised.   At the present time, I'm a real cherry in this “advanced cleaning” business.  I'm in the position that I want to get the cases cleaner than simple tumbling, but I hate to invest a King's ransom in the process, either.I'm wondering where to go, and how far to take the whole thing. Bill  

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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RicinYakima posted this 25 November 2015

Bill,

I bought one of the Hornady brand ultra-sonic (They are all made in China by the same company) that works but not well. It will do 10 30/06 cases in one 4 minute cycle. They have to be de-primed first. I gave up on it for cleaning cases, except black powder brass (that still has to be tumbled).

Now it is used only for cleaning gun parts.

HTH, Ric

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gpidaho posted this 25 November 2015

Bill: I too became dissatisfied with the job accomplished using corn cob or walnut shell media. It's messy, takes forever and there are worries about toxic dust. (something else will get us first) From what I understand the stainless pins in a wet rotary tumbler are the ultimate in case cleaning but geared more to high volume to justify the cost. Keep your Lyman tumbler and add a sonic cleaner. I own the Lyman TS-2500 and it does a great job of getting the inside the case grunge your talking about out. The sonic cleaners clean brass squeaky clean inside and out but do not make it shine, for that you'll need to do a short run in clean corn cob media. What works well for me to extend the use of the sonic cleaning solution is after use I pour the liquid into one of those one gallon sun tea jugs and let the sediment settle below the spigot. At just over a hundred bucks I believe the sonic cleaners do an excellent job. Gp

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billglaze posted this 25 November 2015

Ric:Thanks for the tip; another pitfall I've been prevented from falling into.  10 cases at a time is rather a bit smaller batch than I want to fool with. GP:  I'm looking into several options; so far, what you suggest seems to be the most viable.  I'm looking a little closer now:  Is there any possibility of using the “dirt cheap” (HAR) dishwashing detergent trick, and discarding it after use, rather than some expensive, dedicated cleaner solution? Mike, Ric, GP:  Thanks, you've been a world of help for your experience/hints/info. Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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RicinYakima posted this 25 November 2015

Bill,

The stuff is surfactants and not soap. You can use soap, but then it has to be rinsed and brushed or the dirt sticks to the metal as it dries. The stuff made for iron alloys also has a rust inhibitor that your need if you don't dry and oil immediately.

I used this system in the lab with 5 gallon sized tanks, and it works well. Just the home sized ones have challenges.

Ric

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gpidaho posted this 25 November 2015

Can't say Bill as so far I've just used the Lyman cleaning products. The stuff goes a long way, good for several batches. I really like the iron alloy cleaner for cleaning AR bolt carriers and revolver cylinders. I've never had good luck running just one four minute cycles and always run mine two of the 480 second cycles. I do between 50 and 150 cases at a time depending on there size and like many of our tools work better as you become accustom to their use. Well worth the money in my opinion. Gp

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Bud Hyett posted this 26 November 2015

A friend has the ceramic tumbling media setup which cleans black-powder cases very well. I liked the result, but feared latent hard ceramic dust particles going down my barrels. Therefore, before I retired and when I still had some spare money, I bought the kit with the steel pins and the high-speed tumbler. The company selling the kit guaranteed the results or your money back and they are less than seventy miles from my house.

The clean case results are very good, but add several steps to the reloading cycle. Resize the cases and get the primer hole open. Then clean the cases in the detergent solution for four hours. After four hours, the cases will look almost new both inside and out.

Now comes the tedious part in getting the cases out of the solution. The primer pockets will be 90 to 100 percent clean, but they may have a pin in the flash hole. Each flash hole must be checked and the pins dug out. This is usually one to three flash holes per hundred , but must be done. Each case must be inspected for a pin inside the case. When done and the cases are upside down on the blocks, I hit the cases with a hair dryer to assure all moisture is gone.

The other slow factor is keeping the pins corralled. They are small, roll easily and like to go down the drain. Even with a catch bucket with grid wire, they seem to pop up everywhere. Some stainless steels are magnetic, if they have a high chrome content. The pins I have are not magnetic, so chasing each loose pin by hand is the result.

I have an older Thumler Tumbler, the normal rotation speed rock polisher. I've used it as a trial, but the trial went eight hours and did not come quite as clean. I can set the high speed up with solution, put in 200 .45-70 cases and go cast for four hours. Empty the tumbler for a break and have spent most of a day with my .45-70.

I like the result of this slow tedious process and recommend it for straight wall cases. Straight wall cases are easier to check the inside for pins and get those pesky little buggers chased out.   

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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358156hp posted this 26 November 2015

I started tumbling with stainless pins a few months back. I bought a used Thumlers like BHyetts, and mine too is the slower 1500 RPM model. I manager to locate some oversized pins on the internet, large enough that none of mine have been able to pass through a primer flash hole. These tumblers only have a 15 lb capacity, and over half that is taken up by the water. I use one gallon per cleaning, so thats 8 lbs right there. The pins alone weigh about 5 lbs. the rest can be brass cases, and I'll admit up front that I rarely weigh the brass I put in, so I'm sure I'm overloading the blasted thing, but I'm pretty impatient. I use Armor-All car wash and wax, along with about 1/4 tsp or so of Lemishine rinse agent for dishwashers. I hope the wax in the car wash soap will help keep my shiney clean brass from tarnishing. I still can't vouch for how well its working.

Anyway, to answer the original questions, yes, the brass gets very clean, especially the inside, which thrills me to no end. The primer pockets never get spotlessly clean, the pins don't reach into the sharp inside corners of the pocket. Not a huge deal, but I really wanted spotless primer pockets. The insides of the cases look like new. old tarnish spots, discoloration, and even the discoloration from flame annealing all disappear. The cases are really shiney, but show a slight matte finish on close inspection. And yes, a tiny amount of brass is removed from the cases, and looks like tiny sparkleys in the water. The pins do seem to remove a tiny amount of the drum liner with each use too, but my drum liner is old and hard, this may not happen on newer tumblers.

What I don't like is the water usage for all this. One gallon of water for tumbling, another 3-4 gallons for the tumbling media separator & rinse cycle. My separator is an RCBS, the cheap ones seem break under all the usage, plus the weight of the water, etc. A friend has broken two of the Midway separators. Then it's necessary to sort the brass from the pins, which is another pain, and dispose of the dirty water, which is a really icky, muddy black, part of this is the afore mentioned liner being worn down. Next it is necessary to dry the brass. Some are using old food dehydrators, some set them out in the sun, and some heat them in a low oven. I wipe them off and tumble them in walnut media. This gets those pesky primer pockets perfectly dry!

Stainless pin tumbling is a bit of work, but even my worst cases come out really clean. I was especially happy with my 357 mag cases, which now appear to have even more capacity, it's amazing how much crud builds up in a case.

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bandmiller2 posted this 26 November 2015

Never took a tumble, I use an ultrasonic cleaner and a little Zep citrus cleaner. I punch the primers out first. Only down side is the cases must dry before you use them. I have thought about a chamber to pull a vacume on them but why complicate things, time I have. Frank C.

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bandmiller2 posted this 26 November 2015

Have you fellas that use tumblers ever tried just cases water and a little citrus cleaner.?? I think it will work as well as ultrasonic and a lot less mess to clean up. Frank C.

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358156hp posted this 26 November 2015

I neglected to mention that I decap rifle cases with a universal decapper before cleaning, then size and trim afterwards. The pins seem to batter my freshly trimmed and chamfered case mouths slightly, and I of course don't like that.

Handgun cases are more of a pain. I tumble them briefly in walnut media to clean them a bit, then size and decap them before wet tumbling. This does clean most of the primer pocket residue, and the insides of the cases are perfectly clean, which is my primary goal.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 26 November 2015

heh ... me being one of us many guys who is bored to death using things that are proven to work ... i went to my big box home supply and bot a couple pounds of bulk stainless brads ... nails ... of a size that wouldn't bind in a primer hole . then i threw them in my rcbs roller tumbler and a big handful of brass .

about 4 hours later i had knocked off all the lumps but maybe i should have de-fanged the sharp points on the nails ... there were lots of cosmetic scratches on the brass .... i tried different liquids and buffering with walnut hulls ... always sorta worked ... but then i recalled that warren page set a ton of records and never cleaned primer pockets ...

so now i have lowered my standards and shoot tarnished ... but not gritty ... brass. patina, i think collectors call it .

oh if you are still serious, we have tumbled our products for 40 years in cement mixers full of media as needed. a pretty good investment, just replaced a few pinion gears . and you always have a cement mixer .

ken

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 26 November 2015

The only reason I polish the brass is that it is easier to FIND in the grass - .223's hunting prairie dogs.

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358156hp posted this 27 November 2015

I just like pretty brass. It's so sparkly! I also have an ulterior motive for nickel plated brass. I've notice that my case mouth expander sticks when I lower the ram, so I want to see if the pin tumbling will smooth that out a little bit. I'm less concerned about the high pull on the expander than I am about high pull on the bullets, which could lead to an uptick in chamber pressure.

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gpidaho posted this 29 November 2015

Yes, for getting the tarnish off brass citric acid in boiling water works pretty well. Just submerse the cases in the mix and stir with a wooden spoon for a minute or two and rinse. Pretty inexpensive. Gp

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billglaze posted this 29 November 2015

GP:Where does one get citric acid?  i've not spent too much time in grocery stores, letting my wife do that delightful little chore, but I've got no clue as to where to look.  Maybe not even grocery stores; I dunno.  Help!!

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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gpidaho posted this 29 November 2015

Bill: I get mine at the local True Value or Ace hardware stores, anywhere canning supplies are sold. Make sure you get citric acid and not the “fruit fresh” ascorbic (sp) acid. I hear you about grocery shopping. I have to be out of EVERYTHING before I head there. lol Gp

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Brodie posted this 29 November 2015

I once had a friend remark that I did not shop for groceries, but took the store by storm. At least I got in and out in less time.

B.E.Brickey

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358156hp posted this 30 November 2015

Try looking around the food canning supplies. Let us know how you like it.

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