Savage 99 in .358 Winchester

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  • Last Post 28 November 2015
Rodfac posted this 07 November 2015

I just acquired a Savage 99 in .358 Winchester in superb shape, at least the metal portions. I've refinished the stock and reassembled the gun and I'm looking for a good starting point for cast bullets. The barrel's good (I've shot several 3-shot gps at 100 yds that hover around an inch and a quarter with Hornady's excellent 200 gr Rn over 47 gr of Win 748).

I was also lucky enough to find 200 new Hornady .358 Win cases at a reasonable cost. I've got an RCBS 200 gr flat point mold that throws wheel weight alloy bullets that fall from the mold at 0.360". I also have a good Lyman 358156 gc mold that also drops them at 0.360". Powders available are: 2400, 3031, 748, Re-15, 4320, 4198, Reclaimed 820 as well as Unique, Herco, 231 and Bullseye on the pistol side of the house. Primarily I'm interested in a good practice load that'll allow use without serious leading, as well as a heavier one for deer out to 125 yds or so. The gun is scoped at present with a 4x glass. Any load suggestions are welcome...and thanks in advance. Rod

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M3 Mitch posted this 07 November 2015

While I don't have first-hand experience with a .358, I would think 748 would do well with a cast bullet as well as jacketed. Probably the latest Lyman cast bullet manual has loads for it.

Glad you found some correctly head-stamped cases, but I guess you know that .308 cases can be made into .358 by fire-forming or possibly by using say an 8mm and then .35 expander (Probably a Lyman “M” die would be better than trying to use a regular expander ball, but that could work too.)

With a .360 bullet and a good lube, you should not have any leading issues with plain base up to about 1400 FPS, and with a gas check you should be able to go to nearly a full power load if that's what you want.

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 07 November 2015

Motivation!  I've got to dig mine out.  The 200gr RCBS is my favorite.  I've always leaned towards 748.

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RicinYakima posted this 07 November 2015

The 200 grain RCBS FP is as good as it gets for practice loads (I like 14 grains of 2400). For a hunting load consider the SAECO 250 FP and shoot it like a solid, aim for bones. IMR 3031 is always a winner and lots of data and track record.

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Larry Gibson posted this 07 November 2015

I push the RCBS 35-200-FN at 2150 fps for hunting and practice out of my 35 Rem (M91 Argentine with 26” Shilen barrel).

I cast the practice bullets of COWWs + 2% tin and WQ.

The hunting bullets are cast of COWWs + 2% tin then mixed 50/50 with lead and AC'd. The hunting bullets, once loaded, are then HP'd 3/16” deep with the 1/8” Forster HP tool. I load them over 37 gr IMR4895. Accuracy is excellent as is the terminal effect.

Both drop close to .360 as cast so I use a .360 H&I in a Lyman 450 to just lube and GC. I use Lar's NRA 50/50 lube or 2500+. The practice bullets I can shoot all day long with no leading or fouling to degrade accuracy (1 1/2 moa). With the softer hunting bullets I clean the barrel every 7 or 8 shots to maintain the best accuracy (2 moa of less to 200 yards) for hunting.

You should be able to push the same bullet to 2300+ fps for hunting and maintain very good accuracy for a minimal 200 yard effective range in your .358W M99.

I also use just 32 gr IMR4895 with the same bullet for 1900 fps which is a pleasant load to shoot for many.

Of the powders you list 3031 and RL15 would be good choices. I've not used 748 much with cast bullets so can't advise there. I would suggest Bullseye and Unique both for use with the 358156. With bullseye a very good if not excellent small game and plinking load should be found in the 900 - 1200 fps range. A warmer load in the 1400 - 1800 fps range should be found, again with very good accuracy.

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

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Rodfac posted this 08 November 2015

Thanks for the great replies, one and all. We've got relations from Norway visiting till Tuesday, so I'll not be able to get to my farm meadow range till late next week. I'll post my results ASAP.

I did manage to get 5 of the new brass loaded with the minimum recommended 748 charge of 47.5 grains behind Hornady's 200 gr RN yesterday. No chrono data but after cleaning and shooting two for fouling purposes, I put the last 3 into an inch and a quarter group at 100 yds with a 4x scope mounted. With no scope adjustment the resulting group was 2” low and and an inch to the right....looks like the previous owner had used it with 200 grainers. Looks like the gun has some real potential...Pics later this coming week...thx again Rod

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delmarskid1 posted this 09 November 2015

27.5g of 4198 looked good in my 375 Whelen today.

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Rodfac posted this 09 November 2015

LMG...thanks for the tips...are you using the .35 Remington or .358 Winchester cartridge in your Argentine M91? Your comment, “The hunting bullets are cast of COWWs + 2% tin then mixed 50/50 with lead and AC'd' left me scratching my head a little. Are you casting a 50-50 alloy of WW and lead? Also, I'm not familiar with “AC'd". Too, I've never tried the Forester hollow pointing tool, but it sounds far simpler than trying to get hp's filled out when casting. Maybe this is the excuse for me to find one. I'd assume it would work on .357 Magnum bullets of the 358156 variety, as well.

Ric... I'm a fan of 2400 as well for reduced loads and have tried Ed's famous “the load", on many of my full size cartridges.

I've got H&I sizers from .355 to .360 to try as well.

Thanx again guys...always a pleasure to hear from you all. Rod

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Rodfac posted this 20 November 2015

Just a quick update: I tried RCBS' 358 Dia. FP which weighs 213gr with my alloy of WW + a pinch of tin and water quenched. Success came on the first try using 4759 clone from Jeff Bartlett using 18.0 to 19.5 grains. I'm estimating 1600 fps or a bit more. Groups ran from an inch to just under 2” for 3-5 shots at 100 yds, here on my farm range.

In testing these, I haven't set up a dedicated bench rest, using instead my porch rail with only a forward hand support which gives me the same point of impact as my deer stand hold.

I used the 19.5 gr. load to kill a 9 pt Kentucky buck at 50 yds here on our farm on the 2nd day of the season. Penetration was complete; breaking a rib on entry and another on exit and also clipping the bottom of the spine while in transit. The exit hole was the size of 50 cent piece, but I was unable to recover the bullet to check for deformation. Impact was about 5” higher than my hold and I suspect that the bullet nicked a branch sticking out of my burn pile of brush. Pretty impressive performance in my estimation.

I also loaded Hornady's 200 gr .358 RN over 47.5 gr of 748 and got similar results, albeit at 2200+ fps.

The rifle is comfortable to shoot with either prescription; with recoil similar to my .308 Sako with factory 180 grain Spitzers.

I finished the stock refinish, using Formby's Finish Restorer and 0000 steel wool to get back to bare wood. Two coats of Minwax “Gunstock” stain, followed by a number of coats of Minwax Tung Oil completed the work. Per suggestions from members of the Savage Collectors Forum, I used a small (1/4") neoprene “O” ring under the forend screw to minimize group drift as the barrel heated. This simple fix seemed to work well for me, as my groups were fairly circular, with no discernable tendency to string.  I replaced the scope mounted by the previous owner, with a venerable Leupold M8 2.5x long eye relief. This is the first rifle I've scoped with one of this kind of optics and it's a joy to use. The Leupold single piece mount fits it well and there's all kinds of eye and eye brow clearance. I'm a member of the perforated eye brow club; done it twice while shooting up hill with a .35 Whelen in one instance, and off the bench when testing a friend's Ithaca M37 Featherweight 12 ga in the other. Too, the M8 looks good on the Savage!

All in all, it's a heck of nice saddle and carry carbine with its straight stock and lever and shorter than usual 22” bbl. It's destined to be a Christmas gift to son #2, (but in the interim, I get to work with it developing loads!). BTW, fully loaded with sling attached it weighs 8-1/2 lbs. It's nicely balanced, though so the weight even after several hours of trudging around the local hills is not a problem, even at my advanced 69 years.

Best Regards, Rod (Pics forthcoming when I get this new laptop's programing finished.)

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Larry Gibson posted this 21 November 2015

Rodfac wrote: LMG...thanks for the tips...are you using the .35 Remington or .358 Winchester cartridge in your Argentine M91? Your comment, “The hunting bullets are cast of COWWs + 2% tin then mixed 50/50 with lead and AC'd' left me scratching my head a little. Are you casting a 50-50 alloy of WW and lead? Also, I'm not familiar with “AC'd". Too, I've never tried the Forester hollow pointing tool, but it sounds far simpler than trying to get hp's filled out when casting. Maybe this is the excuse for me to find one. I'd assume it would work on .357 Magnum bullets of the 358156 variety, as well............ Rod
I'm using 35 Remington in the M91 Argentine.    I add 2% tin to the COWWs and then mix at 50/50 with lead....or....you can mix the COWWs 50/50 with the lead and then add 1% tin to that....ends up the same.      "AC'd” means air cooled.    I've HP'd many a loaded 358156 in 38 SPLs and 357 Magnums with the Forster tool......works just fine.   LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

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Rodfac posted this 22 November 2015

LMG...Thx that clears it up...Rod

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bandmiller2 posted this 26 November 2015

Rod, I to searched for many years for a 99 358, finally gave up and rebarreled a later model 99 and chambered it to 358. Wile I was at it replaced the stock and fore end to fit me perfectly. I just run 308 brass into a 358 die. That 200gr. RCBS mold is a dandy I can hover around an inch at 100yds. My favorite powder is H322. The Savage 99's will surprise you with their accuracy and I just like the way they feel. Frank C.

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Rodfac posted this 26 November 2015

Thanks Band...I like the old Savage 99 too...my other one is an EG in .300 Savage...killed my 2nd deer this year with one at a paced off 150 yds and DRT too, albeit with a jacketed bullet.

That said here's the pic of my RCBS 213 gr Flat nose bullet, sized 0.360” and lubed with White Label 50-50. The alloy is water quenched WW+ an estimated 1% tin, a no-lead combination in this gun. Essentially, I use the 450 Lyman for lubing only as this bullet's dia. is as cast. The other pic is of my 9 ptr, shot with this combination a week ago. Best regards, Rod

http://s261.photobucket.com/user/Rodfac/media/IMG_5125_zps6t0m94ak.jpg.html>http://s261.photobucket.com/user/Rodfac/media/IMG_5196_zpskpkmfmkl.jpg.html>

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admiral posted this 26 November 2015

In my Savage 99 .358 my basic load is 41.0gr. IMR3031 with either the Accurate 210B or a LBT LCFN both 210gr. and .361” diameter. Velocity is 2250 fps.

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bandmiller2 posted this 26 November 2015

The 358 and 35 remmy, you can load to jacketed speeds with fairly hard cast and their large enough to punch a good hole. Frank C.

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Rodfac posted this 27 November 2015

Good info Admiral...I'll give it a try...Lots of 3031 on hand thanx to a neighbor that moved last yr and left me his supplies. Rod

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Rodfac posted this 28 November 2015

A better pic of the Savage.  Rodhttp://s261.photobucket.com/user/Rodfac/media/IMG_5192%204_zpsge2gzzy5.jpg.html>

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