Wow, we sure got a pair of black eyes! Reading my latest issue of Handloader, # 299, Dec 2015 issue, two authors really raked one of our members over the coals. Dave Scovill in his article, Cherry Picking pointed us out and one of our members. Charles Petty's article, .451 Versus .452 sized 45 Bullets didn't point the finger at us, the CBA but he certainly commented on a write-in critic. Once one read the first article, it didn't take much to figure out who he was referring to. Ouch, we sure didn't need that sort of notoriety. I was equally surprised that they would call us, the CBA out in print just because one of our members thoroughly jerked their chain. Every gun magazine including ours, The Fouling Shot, is trying to get the sportsmen's money for subscriptions so I hate to see one publication bash another. Handloader gets way more publicity than does our CBA and TFS so these published comments really hurt. They will have an affect on our ability to gain more members.
Two Black Eyes
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- Last Post 03 December 2015
I saw those articles yesterday and was quite taken aback by “Handlloader's” response as well. However, I wonder whether they were responding to the tone of the letters as much as the content? Lastly, I've subscribed to that magazine for 20+ years and find them to be a bit defensive about questioning their received wisdom.
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Please let us know what article it was and which TFS. I have looked in several recent ones without finding it. I am not subscribing to the Handloader at the present. Or was the offense in a letter to the Handloader?
Thanks,
John
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I haven't bought a copy of the Handloader in years. But have heard about Mike Venturino's articles on shooting cast bullets in military rifles in the past. The comments have not been very complimentary.
Seems to me that some one from the CBA ought to respond with a letter to the Handloader/ Wolf publishing. Maybe a board director or the President. Included should be an invitation to all involved to shoot with us at a match sometime. Money where the mouth is so to speak.
Without having read any of the articles that you have mentioned, I'd bet a rude education would be the result.
Guess I'll get me a Dec. issue.
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John A, the authors of Handloader were very put out over what as they put it, a drive by critic and member of the CBA wrote to them in a letter. It didn't have anything to do with any of our publications.
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if you go to www.riflemagazine.com
you can subscribe; also sample :: handloader, rifle ... but not download the full issue content.
i have forever bought off and on the magazines at my gunshop, to support the shop ; always interesting and always opinionated ... just gotta parse ...
it is possible wolfe publishing is getting a little desperate nowadays ...
any response should be preceded by some research into the insult to the cba ; if i can find the statements i will write a letter to wolfe .
if i had those statements i would make a scan available to cba members on a personal basis .
ken
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Ken Campbell Iowa, I listed the issue, the authors, and the articles that the comments appear in. Re-visit my first post above. If that doesn't do it, contact me off the forum and I will make copies of the articles and E-mail them to you.
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In the Handloader issue before this last one, there was an announcement that Black Powder Cartridge News is going to be published by Wolfe Publishing from now on. This saddened me because I've had a great working relationship with Steve Garbi when submitting articles to his publication. With it being taken over by Wolfe Publishing, will they be as welcoming to freelance articles as Steve was? As far as Handloader, the publisher would not accept freelance material.
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Complaining to a magazine, newspaper, or TV commentator is generally a waste of time. They have control over what the public reads or hears about them. We have none. Unless you want to start your own MAJOR publication that is available on the news stand, and at the supermarket you are urinating into the wind. We would only get sprayed with our own words. Wolfe Publishing hired Dave Scoville to increase their ad revenue. As long as he does that he has a job, and can pretty much get away with anything. Forty some years ago (or maybe 50 now) I sent a letter to a newspaper columnist about an article he had written. I was crucified in print. All I had done was point out his errors. My Dad told me what I have already said in the first paragraph. It still holds true today. Invite Dave S. to a CBA match. Let them see what can be done with cast bullets, and maybe then they will pursue adds from mold makers and others who provide tools for our hobby. Until they do the all mighty dollar is going to be king, and only jacketed bullets will be worth shooting as far as Wolfe Publishing is concerned. Brodie
B.E.Brickey
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I edited my first post because I had included Mike Venturino and that was an error. Charles Petty's article continued where Mikes stopped and that messed me up.
I picked up on this on my third reading of all three articles. I believe Mike is a CBA member and I'm glad to say, he wasn't part of this situation. So, please re-read my first post because it has been revised.
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I agree with Old Coot, the less said, the better. Anything we as an organization did would later be dumped back in our laps. It would backfire big time in their national magazine where they have over double the readership than we have members.
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Dirty bore said:"I edited my first post because I had included Mike Venturino and that was an error. Charles Petty's article continued where Mikes stopped and that messed me up.". I edited mine too.
B
B.E.Brickey
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Dave Scovil has been named as the main reason many of the friends over at Boolits have abandoned Handloader. Since joining here at the CBA and Boolits I get more usable information monthly than I've gotten in years of reading gun magazines. With all the information available on the web gun magazines are a waste of money only ads and pictures. Mr. J Brennan's book, Cast Bullets for beginner & expert will give you more usable gun information than Dave Scovil even suspects. Gp
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Back around 1970 I watched my first wife (She Who Must Not BE Named) out shoot two yo-yo's from one of the LA published gun rags. One of the clowns was shooting a 45ACP off of sand bags (a Gold Cup no less) she out shot him with a 9mm Browning Hi Power off hand fired one handed. The other was shooting a .264Win Mag from the bench and his target looked like it had been hit with a load of #4 buck at 40yds. She used a sporterized 30/06 and my cast ammo, the 193gr. Saeco over IMR3031. Writers know how to write, not necessarily WHAT they are writing about. Unfortunately they have control of a public forum and we do not. The purpose of a magazine (besides the Fouling Shot) is to make money, and circulation numbers are only good when dealing with a possible advertiser. When viewed this way and when you take what they say with a pound or two of salt understanding the process is much easier.
Handloader and Rifle were excellent magazines before Dave Scovile took over as editor. In fact they were the only gun and loading rags that I would read. I dropped my subscriptions a couple of years ago, and I don't miss their babble much. If I want to read an industry mag they are available free of charge once a year from my local gun shop. All they have are adds and articles telling me how great their products are. Why should I pay exhorbitant prices for the same drivel. Brodie
B.E.Brickey
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If they bother you, vote with your feet. Tell them exactly why you will not be renewing your subscription, or buying it at the news stand. I had to do this a few years back, and I made good on my promise.
They really have turned more to a “review” type format, rather than a technical publication.
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p.s. They hate my guts down there anyway, so I can say what I wish! :)
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Ken Campbell Iowa, I listed the issue, the authors, and the articles that the comments appear in. Re-visit my first post above. If that doesn't do it, contact me off the forum and I will make copies of the articles and E-mail them to you.
I would like to see what happened. If you could send me the articles and the offending letter I would be grateful. Thanks, John
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I don't read Handloader, except occasionally on the rack if a copy lands in the Food Lion and hasn't been picked up by somebody and bought already. I don't know anything about the article or what was said in the letter, but in defense of gun magazines generally, they are all enslaved by their need for advertising money to stay afloat.
Consequently, their articles by design must be product oriented to the advantage of the advertisers. This is their rice bowl and they will be defensive of it. With VERY few exeptions, that is how it is.
In the days when I was on the NRA Tech staff the magazine was not as dependent on advertising revenue, and while the publications division got material and technical support from industry, the work was more “consumer reports” in focus and the industry both valued and encouraged our efforts.
After Cincinnatti all of that changed and the larger advertising dollars were needed to feed the lobbying engine and the magazine became just one more large sucking machine for advertising money, and you could not bite the hand that fed you. That was when I left for Ruger. Another education, but I have many fond memories of the Ruger family, the engineering staff and employees and the mentoring I received there. A class act.
News stand gun magazines and newspapers are dying, they are simply trying to stay alive with all the free competition from the Internet. Accept them for entertainment value and don't be too hard on them for not being what they used to me. Times are changing and maybe I'm just becoming a softee in my old age because I've been on both sides of the fence.
As for Mike Venturino, I know him personally and consider him a friend. We have similar interests and share emails and ideas occasionally. But I also respect his rice bowl and his privacy and wish him well.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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Handloader is the only gun mag I still get other than the nitch mags such as Muzzleloader, Black Powder Cartridge, and of course, TFS. I also get The American Rifleman but I get that for a totally different reason so it doesn't count.
I don't have a beef with most of the authors of Handloader but pure contempt in writing isn't the way to retain readership.
Ed Harris stated in regard to how magazines used to be, “The work was more “consumer reports” in focus and the industry both valued and encouraged our efforts.” The day I sent a very in-depth informative article to Handloader, it was sent back with an accompanying letter informing me to never bother again.
Our Fouling Shot, Black Powder Cartridge, and Muzzleloader have each accepted freelance articles from their readers (consumers). I like this because these are the same people who are DOING what these publications are all about. Presently Muzzleloader has changed ownership and Black Powder Cartridge has come under Wolfe's (Handloader) umbrella so the old policies might just change. I sure hope not.
There have been some very enjoyable articles in Handloader but it doesn't take much arrogance to lose my business. I've never met Mike Venturino but I have several of his books and find his articles either informative or geared more those who haven't been exposed to cast bullet shooting which is good.
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John A, I don't have a copy of the letter that Dave Scovill mentions in Handloader but I will get copies of the two articles to you.
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