1:40 Alloy

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  • Last Post 24 January 2016
Pigslayer posted this 31 October 2015

After briefly discussing with Ed Harris I decided to mix up a batch of 1:40 alloy for my sub-sonic pistol loads e.g. .45 Colt, .44 Special & .38 Special. I found that with good bullet fitment there is absolutely no leading.       I have pretty much always used Lyman #2 in all my (rifle & pistol) loads. But Antimonial lead & tin are expensive. Upon reading a number of Ed's posts mentioning 1:40 alloy I thought I'd try it. I find that I have to run my pot pretty warm but the alloy does cast beautifully! Thanks Ed!!  

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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delmarskid1 posted this 31 October 2015

I have to agree. I don't know that I'm using the same alloy but I do know that the soft bullets are shooting well without leading. I go near to 900 fps in my .44 mag with no gudgies.

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JeffinNZ posted this 31 October 2015

I use a nominal 40-1 in a lot of casting. .310 Cadet, .32-20 and .30-30 WCF. The .30-30 load is a CBE 311 162 bullet with a commercial gas check doing 1750fps. Shoots great BUT only with a Cu commercial GC. Obviously the soft alloy needs the GC to keep hold of the rifling.

Cheers from New Zealand

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John Alexander posted this 08 November 2015

I'm surprised that it takes hotter than usual to get good bullets with 40:1.  2.5% tin seems reasonable rich??? John

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Ed Harris posted this 08 November 2015

Longone wrote: What temp do you need to run the pot in order to get good fill out with this mix?

Longone I run mine about 700 degs. F, never over 720.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 09 November 2015

Most of my current molds are from Accurate and ordered for the specific alloy.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ed Harris posted this 09 November 2015

Also important is to understand how Tom applies tolerances. Most mass produced molds have a tolerance of +0.002 on diameters. On my designs, I specify the maximum nose dimension as the exact throat size based upon measuring a chamber cast. I then specify “nose tolerance negative” to enable slight clearance, whereas driving bands are toleranced + in the normal manner, ordering diameter specified at my desired MINIMUM, so that any tolerance then works for me and the bullets can be shot as-cast and unsized. An example drawing of one of mine is attached

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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John Alexander posted this 09 November 2015

Longone wrote: What molds are you guys using? Were they made specific for this alloy? I'm using mostly RCBS molds for handgun and they call for a 10-1 alloy so I'm not confident that it will work in them.

Longone

I always thought that when a manufacturer cited an alloy they only meant that you were most likely to get the nominal weight and diameter with that alloy -- not that it wouldn't cast other alloys OK.

I have never had a mold that would easily cast good bullets with wheel weight alloy that also wouldn't easily cast good bullets with linotype, 40:1, or any reasonable alloy in between. Have others had a different experience?

Does anybody even cast with 10:1?  It seems like a waste of tin and an inefficient way to get something harder that say 20:1.  Even Elmer only went as far as 16:1 and he never claimed to be a metallurgist.

John

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Ed Harris posted this 09 November 2015

10:1 is an archaic alloy leftover from old Lyman-Ideal mythology and folklore.

The linotype/lead blends and common ratios I mentioned in the Fouling Shot 236-3 are alot more practical because you can affordably and predictably blend any hardness you want.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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giorgio the slim one posted this 10 November 2015

Ed's words should be carved in stone . The Lyman handbooks contain a lot of historical information , and a lot of wrong advice ,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Computer custom design and aluminum gang  molds have made iron molds obsolete , and Xlox and Lee push through sizing dies have spelt the death toll of the lubrisizers . Cast bullet shooters should take notice that the times are changed.

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Larry Gibson posted this 10 November 2015

giorgio the slim one wrote: The Lyman handbooks contain a lot of historical information , and a lot of wrong advice ,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Computer custom design and aluminum gang  molds have made iron molds obsolete , and Xlox and Lee push through sizing dies have spelt the death toll of the lubrisizers . Cast bullet shooters should take notice that the times are changed. Even though we are all entitled to our opinions I'd have to seriously doubt that opinion.

For general casting my aluminum moulds do not cast any better bullets than my Lyman and RCBS iron moulds.  Quality aluminum moulds, even though they are supposed to be easier to machine, still require the same set up and machining, ergo the cost as much if not more than iron block moulds.  Iron block moulds obsolete.......not in our lifetime.......

I have numerous Lee push through sizers yet use my four Lyman 450s more often and/or use them with each other.  Most times when a used 450 or 4500 comes up for sale it is not bargain priced just to get rid of it since no one is using it anymore.  The Lyman 450 and 4500s are snapped up almost immediately as are the RCBS lubrasizer most often at almost “new” prices. 

LMG     

Concealment is not cover.........

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R. Dupraz posted this 10 November 2015

Same for the Saeco's. At least from what I have seen over the years. Have a couple and also use them in conjuction with each other depending on what Is being done at the time.

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 10 November 2015

John Alexander wrote: Does anybody even cast with 10:1?  It seems like a waste of tin ... John

On occasion I do. 

But then I get tin much cheaper than lead .... (not a lot, perhaps 100 lbs a year).

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 10 November 2015

Longone wrote: I was given a good supply of bar solder so I don't mind using it, now for me antimony is what I would have to lay cash out for.

Longone

You could likely trade bar solder (lead-tin) for lead-free bar solder (usually is 96% tin 4% antimony)

 

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Ed Harris posted this 11 November 2015

I have found a GREAT improvement in modern lathe-bored molds from Accurate, LBT and HM2, over the cherry cut mehanite molds from Saeco, RCBS, H&G et al.

Swede at NOE cuts with a cherry, but using modern computerized equipment is able to orbit the tool and cut custom diameters with precision which approached the lathe bore molds.

With the moderate cost, high quality and multiple sources of excellent quality lathe-bored molds, I can't understand why anyone would take their chances with a production cherry-cut mold such as RCBS, Lyman or Saeco in hopes of getting one which might “fit."

I own over a dozen Accurate molds, and probably four each of LBT, HM2 and NOE which came exact to size specified, wioth alloy specified.

I cannot say that for RCBS, Saeco or Lyman.

Also, like Giorgio, I cast outdoors on my screened porch, and molds are stored in a locked steel cabinet, with nothing more than a coat of Kroil on the steel sprue plates, and there is NO RUST.

Iron molds are heavier, wear an old man out sooner, when you are trying to cast 100 pounds of bullets over a weekend, and they will rust to ruin over a season if stored outdoors and neglected.

The few iron molds I have left I store in an ammo can of Ed's Red, and clean them in the sink with hot water and Dawn dishwashing detergent before pre-heating on an electric hotplate.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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RicinYakima posted this 11 November 2015

Ed,

Bullet casting is recreation for me. I can spend four hours in the shop and cast a couple of hundred perfect bullets, I an happy. Only if I am casting pistol bullets do I break out the RCBS bottom pour and use more than a single cavity mould. Different strokes for different folks!

Best wishes, Ric

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Ed Harris posted this 11 November 2015

I try to cast a year's supply of a given caliber at one time. I know exactly what I want and getting it all from the same heat of metal aids consistency.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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gnoahhh posted this 11 November 2015

Sheesh, I guess I've doing it wrong all these years. I cast one bullet at a time and then shoot it. If it leaves the barrel I figure I'm good to go and then I cast another bullet.

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Larry Gibson posted this 11 November 2015

RicinYakima wrote: Ed,

Bullet casting is recreation for me. I can spend four hours in the shop and cast a couple of hundred perfect bullets, I an happy. Only if I am casting pistol bullets do I break out the RCBS bottom pour and use more than a single cavity mould. Different strokes for different folks!

Best wishes, Ric
Ed   Ric makes exactly the point.  Probably 90+ % of those who cast and shoot their own bullets do not need the extra bit of precision and customization of the more expensive mould makes you list.  I have used numerous LBT, Accurate and other custom moulds.  I have several NOE, HM2 and Accurate moulds.  I also have about 70 +/- Lee, RCBS, Lyman and SAECO moulds which I use for a lot of cast bullets shooting.  I use them all and find for most handgun and milsurp rifle cast bullet shooting the bullets cast in aluminum and iron commercial mould blocks are every bit as good and accurate as those from the more expensive custom aluminum moulds.    As Ric says; “different strokes for different folks"    LMG   As

Concealment is not cover.........

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Pigslayer posted this 06 December 2015

Longone wrote: What molds are you guys using? Were they made specific for this alloy? I'm using mostly RCBS molds for handgun and they call for a 10-1 alloy so I'm not confident that it will work in them.

Longone
Since I started casting with 40:1 I have used both Accurate & Mountain Molds Aluminum & also older Lyman molds. I get great fillout with no frost . . . nice & shiny. The difference in mold material seemed to make no difference in results. As far as tin . . . it's only 2.44%. It's a relief for my wallet not to use antimonal lead.  

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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drhall762 posted this 24 January 2016

I decided to ask this here. Does the 40:1 alloy do well with a paper patched bullet or is it too soft? I saw where it does well with gas checks but I just have never gotten into them.

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