Hi all, I'm pondercat, new to the forum, and I am venturing into casting/shooting .22 cal. I have been casting for a long time for bigger bores (.50 cal down to .270) and early frustration/failures working with that 270 caliber left me cautious about going even smaller until I finally started getting decent results. As I write this there is a .55 grain bullet mold from Lee (C225-55-RF) on its way to me. I will be shooting it through a custom rifle that is twenty five maybe closer to 30 years old, but has not been shot all that much really, with a 1 in 13 twist in a 24” barrel and is still extremely accurate with jacketed bullets. My concern is whether I will be able to get enough velocity shooting cast to stabilize that bullet or should I be searching for a smaller bullet. Looking for any ideas/suggestions, ridicules, rants, raves, or what have you that may help me get started on a not quite so rocky path with this new cast bullet challenge. pondercat
Twist Rate, Bullet Size, and Velocity for small bore
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- Last Post 23 July 2015
Your 1:13 is suitable for that Lee bullet at any practical velocity. Cast bullets aren't as critical to twist as jacketed bullets are and your twist is close to optimal anyway, So I would stop concern in that area.
There is a lot of things you can fail at trying to get started with that bullet. The pain in the butt right way is not all that hard to figure out how to get past.
Finished bullet size loaded to ammo shoots most accurately when the bullet diameter matches the chamber throat for a sliding fit to the throat upon chambering. You can dink around with that for years or do a chamber casting to determine the exact size that will shoot the best.
An inexpensive chamber casting alloy that is reusable with good instructions and a lifetime supply:
A chamber “Pound Casting” method has also been discussed on this forum and that works well also for determining exact throat diameter.
After determining optimal bullet size I generally end up custom honing a Lee bullet sizing die to size bullets to exactly the size from the chamber casting for each rifle.
If your bullet casts too small for your determined size that you need, I proceed to also custom hone the mold and have posted on the simple method I use for the Lee aluminum molds. I hone the mold to drop castings .001” larger than my custom sizing die.
Alloy selection to load pressure is important to accuracy also and I follow the Modern Reloading 2nd Edition, Lee book for selecting an alloy matched to my load level.
When you do all that stuff right the first time, all that is left is load development to find a sweetspot.
I tumble lube everything once before size/check and once after with White's Deluxe 45:45:10. I no longer pressure lube anything and believe tumble lube has obsoleted other bullet lube methods completely.
I get cast to shoot 10 shot 1 MOA groups in two different .223 rifles. What I do works for me, your results depend on how well you work at it.
I always emphasize bore condition for cast bullets also. All my rifles have polished bores with the method I have posted on this forum at:
Cast bullets shoot best from a smooth ride in a polished bore.
The biggest problem with 25-30 year old rifles and cast bullets is that during those years someone may have modified a standard chamber and you will have a nightmare trying to get the rifle to shoot cast when it likely never will. A chamber casting comparison to SAAMI drawing standards will answer that if you have a good micrometer accurate to .0005". Chamber and throat erosion from standard dimensions is also a nightmare for cast bullet shooting.
Gary
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Alloys with a bhn of 14 and under work better in my 22 rifles. Tightgroup powder works verygood {5-6 grains in .223). Not much lube is needed. Keep velocity under 1700 fps.
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The biggest problem with 25-30 year old rifles and cast bullets is that during those years someone may have modified a standard chamber and you will have a nightmare trying to get the rifle to shoot cast when it likely never will. That is not an issue 'cause I got the rifle brand new. It was an anniversary present from my wife way back then, though now I don't recall which anniversary it was. One of our early ones I do know. I also tumble lube but just use liquid Alox mostly. I have never used White's Deluxe but that name keeps coming up. Guess I should give it a try. I used to play around with creating custom lubes but found that I really didn't get better results and sometimes it was disastrous requiring hours of lead removal. I checked out that link you included for chamber casting alloy and I will definitely get some. I have not made a chamber cast of any of my rifles but looking at what you say it the info gained may help me tighten up cat groups on those other guns. Thank you for a very informative post. I'm going to look at your bore polishing method now. Thanks again,Terry
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OU812 Thanks for the reply. I generally shoot 50/50 WW / lead for most of my handgun calibers but go up to water dropped WW for higher velocities. Would that be too hard for .22. I'm thinking that 50/50 or maybe 60/40 would be in the range of BHN 14 -16 maybe? I know WW can and do vary in hardness. Do .22s seem to be more finicky about bullet hardness than bigger bores? I can see I'm gonna have a lot of questions. Terry
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I always emphasize bore condition for cast bullets also. All my rifles have polished bores with the method I have posted on this forum at:
Cast bullets shoot best from a smooth ride in a polished bore.I'm going to go order a bore snake for each of my calibers now! I have got to try that method! I have a new Rossi M92 in .45 Colt that needs broke in. Have only fired the first 5 break-in shots through it so far. Shooting session was called off for a thunderstorm. Thanks for the info. Terry
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OUB12 TiteGroup is getting a lot of use in my loads these days. I started out using like you, 5 or 6gr. in 223 and 22-250. It was such a good no recoil plinking round with the 55gr Lee Bator that I started using it in my 30 and 31 cal rifles. Yesterday took some 8X57 rounds to the range loaded up with 7.5 gr under the Lee 175, 1270 fps through the crono and about 3moa. Glad I bought 4lbs. Gp
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