Hello All: Up to now my casting alloys have been COWW or a mix that uses 2% 95-5 solder and varying amounts of linotype to obtain the BHN I'm looking for. I've been given some old plumbing pipe by one friend and gifted 10lbs. of babbit marked copper hard by another. Today I started looking for a useable mix of what I assume to be soft lead (the pipe) and the babbit. Not wanting to be too aggressive on hardness at first and making a small batch incase it turned out to be a fishing sinker alloy, I started with 60oz. lead to 4oz. babbit. This poured ok from my Lyman mag 20 bottom pour but wasn't quite as hard as I would like (about 9-10 BHN0 I added another 4oz. babbit and this got me to about BHN 14 using a Saeco hardness tester. The problem now is that the alloy will freeze in the bottom pour spout. I can only assume its the copper in the alloy causing this. Seems odd as the babbit will slush at 400 degrees and become liquid at 450. It returns to solid at 390 according to a Lyman thermometer. Well, this may be the nudge I need to learn to ladle cast. I will give it more thought and try again. Your thoughts on this gladly accepted. GP
alloying with Babbit
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- Last Post 01 January 2017
GP: You have a case of the dreaded “spout freeze” which my Dr. was unable to cure. Painful, too! But, in the event, the only cure I could come up with was more temp. on the furnace. I had been using a 2 cavity mold, and the freeze occurred on the cast from the 2nd cavity; the spout was being cooled just enough by the first cavity cast, that I had to wait a few seconds for the spout to warm up. I didn't like doing that, so I just increased the temp. of the melt. Worked fine. HTH.
Bill
In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.
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Well, I'm in my mid sixty's I guess I should expect a few spout problems! lol Have the Lyman all the way up but It's had a lot of use and I may have to up grade soon. Still hopeful with the copper hard. From what I've found it should be 51% lead, 36% tin 12% antimony and 1% copper. Should be able to come up with a good mix if I keep after it. Have read good things about copper in the mix if I can get proportions figured out. Just one more step in the learning curve. Thanks for the reply. GP
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GP Heat will work, occasionally, to remove the copper lower the pot temp to just melting, flux well, so the surface is shiny let the pot sit, the copper will start popping up just below the surface, skim out the removal of the copper will also remove antimony, because it is attached to it
I have some Tin Babbit metal from the line boring of hydraulic pumps...assay is 88-90%SN, 7-8%SB, 3-4%CU, .087%FE, .035%PB,.08%BI, .10% AS
Even after skimming, the little bit of CU left still freezes out in a bottom pour pot....went to a dipper and never looked back
I still have a 50 Cal ammo can full of ingots ...started out with 4 cans full
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4060may: Thanks, Yes as the copper came up in the melt I top skimmed and saved this in a can of it's own. Never having tried babbit, I didn't want to toss out the good stuff by not knowing. The few bullets I cast with the Lyman ladle show promise so that's the way I'm heading I believe. Wish the babbit I have was the tin alloy, but hey it was free and there's a lot of good metal in it so I'll use it as a learning opportunity. I was casually aware that the copper might cause spout freeze so it wasn't a big surprise and with a little help from a hand held torch it opened right up. Thanks for your reply. GP
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While I haven't used copper babbitt yet, I have blended copper sulfate into my mix. It seems to make the bullet more malleable, tougher. I cast at @740° and rarely have spout freeze. At times tho, for the first pour, I take a hand held torch and heat the spout to give it a boost.
I think the copper is a plus not a negative.
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Myflatline: I'd forgotten this old thread, over the last year and a half copper hard babbit and I have become friends. lol Hoping it works well for you too. Gp PS and yes the copper is most definitely a plus. Thanks for the reply.
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I have been using babbitt that contains copper for several years, about 8. My babbitt is reclaimed babbitt from railroad rolling stock bearings (now obsolete) but I found through research it is what is called genuine nickel babbitt (which contains no nickel), grade #2, listed at Rotometals) which puts it as 0.35% or less lead. My babbitt contains approximately 89% tin, 7 1/2% antimony, and 3 1/2% copper. By using an alloy calculator, I normally attempt to get the copper at 0.10% to 0.15%. In my use, I have found no benefit to having a higher content and ammounts above 0.25% tend to be had to cast with. I alloy it with scrap wheel weights and pure lead. For high velocity loads, I water drop or heat treat the bullets. For lesser velocities (mid teens and above to high teens) I air cool. What I have noticed is if one attempts to keep the alloy balanced like Lyman #2, bullet performance is refined. I have found that if one keeps the Sn = Sb+Cu as close as one can, the alloy will perform very well. Copper is a grain refiner so one will notice their bullets are tougher.
One trait of using a copper containing babbitt if one needs to keep the alloy temperature at or above 700*. This may need to be adjusted upward to 750* is using a bottom pour pot to negate freeze off. I hope some will find my information useful.
Edd
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Many years ago I was in the right place at the right time (had to happen one day) and scored a large bearing that held a LOT of 'white metal' or Babbitt. I established, based on density, it was tin based and use it as 'tin' in my alloying with great success. Babbitt is a very variable commodity however and the blend can be greatly different between products.
Cheers from New Zealand
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