Lead bullets in the savage 340 (30-30)

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  • Last Post 25 May 2015
Ralph Smalley posted this 20 May 2015

Hello all, I am back after a couple year hiatus from shooting. I traded for a really nice Savage 340 in 30-30. Since I have no moulds yet, I bought a 170Gr Trueshot GC and a Rim Rock 155 Gc. Both flat points, to work up a hunting type load. using Lee handbook second edition should I start with jacketed bullet loads and go some percentage below the lowest listed load? Or start somewhere in the plain base cast section and work up? (which I am inclined to do). I also have handbooks from Sierra, Hornady Lyman, Hodgden and speer. Seems like Lyman and Lee are the most relevant, by a long shot (pun intended). I'm just checkin with you folks first... Thanks, Ralph

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Brodie posted this 21 May 2015

Ralph: I'm not familiar with the Truehsot or the Rim Rock line of bullets, and don't know what alloy they might be cast out of.  If it is anywhere near Lyman #2 I can tell you that the best hunting load I came up with for a 170 gr. GC bullet in my model 94 was with IMR3031 somewhere between 26 and 29 gr.  I never tried 4895 which I think would have been even better as it is a little slower and should be a little easier on the bullet.  That load got me a number of 13/4 inch groups at 100 yds with iron sights (a long time before I had to get glasses).  WARNING! The load I quoted should be checked with a couple of your manuals, as I drug it out of my sometimes faulty memory.

Other people here should have many loads for those weight bullets in the 3030 .  You might try using the search function.  I should yield a bunch of info on that cartridge. Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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Ralph Smalley posted this 23 May 2015

Thanks, I'm not having much luck separating things with the search function. Time to buckle down and do some learnin, I guess

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onondaga posted this 24 May 2015

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=186>Ralph Smalley

For me , the largest collection of 30-30 loads for cast bullets is in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #4. The most helpful book for alloy selection for cast bullets has been the Lee Modern Reloading #2.

Most real recommended cast loads aren't sensitive to bullet weight like jacket bullet loads are. Cast bullet loads in 30-30 are the same for 160 to 175 gr bullets no matter how they are shaped. There is a lot more leeway with cast bullet loads because the softer cast bullets make less ballistic pressure than jacketed bullets, and cast bullet shooters generally run out of accuracy well before  getting anywhere near high pressure..

What powders do you have access to? My favorite powder for cast bullets in 30-30 is Hodgdon H4895 for any bullet weight in 30-30.

Gary

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358156hp posted this 24 May 2015

Hi Ralph, The 30-30 is one of those happy calibers that you can use starting loads for jacketed bullets with your cast bullets with complete confidence. Your velocities will be slightly higher because the cast bullets create less drag than jacketed bullets of the same weight. You don't indicate that the 155 gr bullets are gaschecked, so you'll want to watch your velocities if they are plainbased, and be prepared to adjust your loads as necessary if leading is encountered. Lymans manual is my favorite, and the LEE is not so much.

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Ralph Smalley posted this 24 May 2015

  Thanks folks for the replies. I have not slugged the throat on this gun yet. I have some 311 and 310 jacketed bullets I will seat in a case and try for fit just to see if they will make it into the throat. That could tell me something really quick n easy. I have the following bullets, all hard cast and gas checked: I have a rim rock 155gr FP that measures just shy off .310 and fits the grooves on my savage with just a little shaving from the muzzle. I have a true shot 170rnfp. I haven't checked the true shot, but they say they're sized .309. We'll see. I have a true shot .309 200gr that I bought for my Krag. I think the tiny driving band on the nose looks useless. I have to double check, since I didn't write it down, but I think the nose is only .296. The driving band might be 300-301 but it's maybe .025 wide. This one might work in my k31? On order from Western Bullet: Lyman 311440 hard cast, 150gr. RCBS 30-180-FNHP(FN wasn't available) NOE#316299 200gr.(I have a couple 303's and mosin's that I want to shoot with lighter recoiling loads. RA has my shoulders all chewed out). I also have a mold from LBT for a plain base 311-180-LFN that I had made to the throat of my krag. I haven't used it yet. Ralph

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Ralph Smalley posted this 24 May 2015

Powders that I have are; IMR4064, 4895, 3031 H322, Trailboss (but I want hunting velocity loads for 3030), unique and lil'gun. Leverrevolution. 3031 is highly recommended for jacketed loads by some friends who shoot 3030 a lot. H322 is Sierra's 150gr. accuracy load powder. Ralph

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Ralph Smalley posted this 24 May 2015

Old Coot

Trueshot bullets are an alloy that contain silver and they are super hard. I have some 45-70 405LFN PB that I may be able to get a good enough impression on with my lee tester, otherwise I need to send a note to Oregon trail and ask them. Ralph Just checked and found it online. Oregoin Trail claims BHN 24 on their bullets (plain or GC). - Ralph

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Ralph Smalley posted this 24 May 2015

I was thinking of picking up a can of BL-C2 because it looks like it generates less pressure than any of the others and still generates good velocity. Also H4895 because it's popular and I haven't tried it.

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onondaga posted this 24 May 2015

http://www.reloadersnest.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=13175>Ralph

Commercial Cast bullet companies make BHN 18+ bullets for one reason...to minimize damage during shipping. BHN 18+ bullets do not expand on game and are poor for harvesting game animals.

Lyman #2 alloy is BHN15 hardness and has been the first choice for cast hunting bullets for well over 100 years for a substantial reason. The 5% tin in #2 alloy is not for hardness at all, the Antimony in that alloy is for hardness, The Tin is for malleability and #2 alloy cast bullets striking game with 1,000 foot pounds or better will expand double in caliber, and have zero weight loss. They leave double caliber holes through game animals.

The harder commercial alloys with less Tin and more Antimony, copper , silver, etc are brittle, they expand less if at all or they crumble and fragment  on impact. Commercial hardcast bullets in 30 caliber are generally not much help to hunters compared to Lyman #2 Alloy in 30 caliber.  Bigger calibers like 45-70 rely on bullet diameter for impact shock, so bullet expansion is not very inportant with a 45-70 as they smack a big hole no matter what alloy they are made of.

A couple of good sources for certified Lyman #2 alloy:

http://www.zipmetals.com/Certified-Lyman-2-Bullet-Casting-Alloy-Ingot-5-Sn5-Sband-90-Pb-5-lb-Ingot_p_166.html>http://www.zipmetals.com/Certified-Lyman-2-Bullet-Casting-Alloy-Ingot-5-Sn5-Sband-90-Pb-5-lb-Ingotp166.html

AND

http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/lyman2bulletmetal.htm>http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/lyman2bulletmetal.htm

I cast all my hunting bullets with Lyman #2 Alloy but I do use an inexpensive BHN15 alloy that shoots identically for recreation that is very similar to Hardball Pistol alloy and I make it with soft range scrap from jacketed bullets and Linotype scrap at 1:1 ratio.

Gary

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Ralph Smalley posted this 24 May 2015

Onondaga;

I prefer softer in pistols, but haven't shot lead in rifles and haven't started casting for them yet. The silver alloy bullets are really brittle - I drove one partially into the muzzle and the nose cracked when i tapped it back out.

I live in Ohio, so I can't hunt with a bottleneck rifle cartridge, but I do want to come as close to factory velocities as is resonably possible. Then I'll prolly slow things down to save money!

For shooting bullseye I use straight wheelweight and rooster lube for 45acp, both wadgun loads and hardball. With an H&G # 50 mold for the wadgun or a Lyman 230gr LRN mold either bullet shoots better than a 25 yard 10-ring at 50 yds. I also use it for 38 special loads with a SEACO #390 LRN mold. They drop about 162 gr. Push them with 4.5 of universal and they shoot about the same in my model 14 Smith. None of these molds are a bevel base design.

I guess that's all really moot because my RA flared up several months ago and I can't pick up a handgun and hold it offhand right now. Hopefully that will get better when I can afford therapy or maybe get a med change

Thanks for the reply! Ralph

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onondaga posted this 24 May 2015

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=186>Ralph Smalley

The most critical factor to getting your 45-70 to shoot well is bullet size big enough  that the bullet slides into the throat.  Undersize bullets in 45-70 do the same as any other caliber, they wobble down the bore, lead up your barrel and shoot all over the place.

It is common for a 45-70 to need bullets .459 to .462” to fit the chamber throat and shoot well. Get bullets big enough so you can feel the sliding fit when you chamber and you will have the best chance at accuracy. It is reasonable to expect 1” 5 shot groups at 50 yards with a good throat fitting bullet in 45-70 and a modest pressure load to match your alloy strength in psi.

You can go as low as 1/2 the available case volume in 45-70 with Hodgdon H4895 with a 350 to 450gr bullet and have good ignition with no need of a filler according to Hodgdon, and I concur. Try that if you want a reduced load in 45-70.  Many other powders are really dangerous to reduce below book START loads in 45-70.

Gary

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Ralph Smalley posted this 24 May 2015

I'm using an oregon trail 405lfn BB and trailboss in my pedersoli rolling block. It shoots amazing and has little recoil. I want to try some 300-350gr in my contender super14. I should slug the throat, as I think T/C throats are long for some reason. I'll have to look around in the contender forums and see what others are doing. Lighter loads would be better more comfy to shoot!

I have to watch that I don't get too many things started and not finish any. (but it's so much fun) Thanks again for the info Ralph

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onondaga posted this 25 May 2015

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=186>Ralph Smalley

My favorite 350 gr cast wide flat nose gas checked bullet in 45 cal.,  I cast these with a Ranchdog 6 cavity mold. They drop .462” in #2 alloy for me. I tumble lube them 45:45:10 once before size/check at .461” and once after. I shoot these 1702 FPS verified in a reduced .458 Win Mag load for Black Bear to 200 yards. I also hunt Whitetail Deer with this load. It is similar in power to a 45-70 factory level load.

Gary

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Ralph Smalley posted this 25 May 2015

Those are sweet. Do you make your own gas checks? I took a doe several years ago with my contender and a winchester 350hp factory load. At 50 yds it punched right through both lungs and looked like it didn't open at all. The doe didn't seem to notice the difference.

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onondaga posted this 25 May 2015

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=186>Ralph Smalley The gas checks I use are Aluminum and come from a member/business owner on our Forum here. These are the ones I use for .458 WM:

http://www.sagesoutdoors.com/10mm-to-50-caliber-gas-checks/23-458-rifle-caliber-checks.html>http://www.sagesoutdoors.com/10mm-to-50-caliber-gas-checks/23-458-rifle-caliber-checks.html

I apply these gas checks with a Lee Lube and Size kit that I have honed out to .461” for my Colt Sauer Grand African .458 WM.

Gary

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