Indiscriminat weights

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  • Last Post 25 April 2015
billglaze posted this 17 April 2015

In today's atmosphere where the Gov't. is insistent about protecting us from ourselves and every perceived hazard, it has come to my attention that most if not all of the buckets of wheel weights I have obtained seem to have a significant percentage of zinc weights.I am having a difficult time in segregating the two metals, so that I'm not accidentally mixing zinc with lead.I've already tried discriminating by using the lowest melt temp. I could, and looking for any “floaters” and picking them out.  Unfortunately, when I tried grabbing the floaters out, by the time I could grab them, they had half melted, spoiling the existing melt.Any other ideas out there?  It would be a great help, inasmuch as we might as well get used to the problem, as the old wheel weights are phased out.  The only upside I can see is I no longer read about all the victims we used to have when people were eating and sucking on lead tire weights.  Could it be that fish are not killed by hooking and landing them, but because they ingested the sinkers?

  

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 17 April 2015

lead has about 4 times the resistivity as zinc ... wonder if a resistance meter could be used to obtain a valid result ... given that the cross section of wheel weights are similar .

or, if we used a programmable weight scale, we could just dunk the weight in water and compare the densities by comparing the loss of weight of the wheel weight . the zinc would lose a larger per centage of it's dry weight than lead . probably could get a high school science kid to put together the components for us .

gotta be a weight, i mean way ... heck, those csi guys always have a magic app on their cell phones ...

ken

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billglaze posted this 17 April 2015

Yeah, I guess the old water displacement trick would do it, but I was looking for something quick and dirty.  (As you know, wheel weights are nearly always dirty.)Hefting them by hand is pretty risky, inasmuch as I can only tell the difference on the larger weights.  Unfortunately, the buckets I have are mostly medium-to-small sized. Gotta be something..............  Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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358156hp posted this 17 April 2015

Funny you should mention this. I started sorting about 300 lbs of used wheelweights yesterday. I have perhaps 50 lbs done so far. I'm using sidecutters to determine the fate of unknown weights. My sidecutters will cut soft lead stick on weights without much effort at all. They will seriously dent lead weights with a bit of effort, and sometimes cut them completely. But they will only scratch the paint on steel or zinc weights. I could probably cut zinc weights if I tried, but this takes so much effort that I toss any weight I can't damage into the discard pile. I'm seeing far more steel weights than zinc so far.

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onondaga posted this 17 April 2015

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=5098>billglaze Lower your pot temp and use a thermometer to determine the temperature and temperature  swing your pot has as it cycles. Zinc melting point is 787.2°F (419.5°C).

It is unlikely your pot temp swing is over 50 degrees F. set your pot at 787 minus 50 or 737 and Zinc will not melt even partially.

Pure lead melts at 621.5°F (327.5°C) pure Tin melts at 449.5°F (231.9°C)

The 737 is well above Lead and Tin melt points and well below Zinc melt point. If your Zinc weights were partially melted, your temperature and temperature swing  evaluation for your pot was wrong.

The biggest mistake doing this is impatience and starting the pot with a full high setting to start the melt rather than thoroughly knowing your pot and using a thermometer to bring up the heat slowly to the right temperature that will not melt Zinc at all. Your results reported indicated you are guilty!!!

An easy solution is to first put some known relatively pure lead in your pot and get the temperature stable with your pot swing centering at 737 degrees F..  Only then is it safe to add any suspect Zinc to test  and discard. Put some in and wait. This all takes patience and a good pot setting with a thermometer. Go along doing it this way and you can pick off Zinc weights and ladle off good lead alloy into ingot molds as you proceed.

Gary

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billglaze posted this 17 April 2015

Pot swing is, according to my thermometer, about 5 degrees; I've spent a lot of time looking at it just to confirm repeatability. I have taken several hours starting the pot at the least temperature; and gradually getting it hotter, and waiting for stability. When this stability seemed to have been achieved, with the lead barely liquid.I would then put in a known lead weight, and watched it become part of the melt. Great. Then, I put in a known zinc weight and it bobbed to the surface. Great! Mission accomplished! As I would pick it (the known zinc) out of the pot, I would notice half the weight would break off near the metal clip, and sink slowly, melting, back into the pot. Trust me, I don't lack patience, and I also (beforehand) read my Chemistry and Physics handbook, confirming what you say re: temperarures. This happened on a repeating basis. Further, I am looking for a pre-sort, so I can utilize a large pot, and a good-sized propane burner to melt a large quantity of known lead to make 5 lb. ingots for future use. This equipment is just waiting to be utilized. But, I don't want to ruin the good weights while finishing with an unusable alloy. There has to be another way. Right now, the side-cutter system seems to be good for openers. Sorry to be so long winded, but I didn't want you to think I hadn't been working on it myself; the progressive temp.method theoretically seemed like a sure winner-- Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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billglaze posted this 17 April 2015

35815Thanks.  I'll probably, (no definitely,) give your system a try.  What I was looking for was a good pre-determination of the good stuff vs. the bad.  I've been using my pocket knife and giving each weight a whittle.  Hasn't worked out too well.  I've got several pairs of good side cutters and a couple of pairs of Dutchmen I'll start out utilizing.

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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Dirtybore posted this 18 April 2015

MMmmmm, I like that side cutter idea.

I've been dropping them on the concrete floor and if the weight makes a “thud” noise, I keep it. If it makes “clink” noise, I discard it. Some weights actually have “fe” cast into it, meaning it isn't lead.

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358156hp posted this 18 April 2015

"Fe” is the abbreviation for iron. Most people call these wheelweights “steel” although it's not technically accurate, everybody knows what is meant. Zinc is abbreviated “Zn", but not all zinc weight are marked as such.

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billglaze posted this 19 April 2015

Nope they're sure not marked with the chemical symbol.  I sure wish they were, it would not have made it necessary for me to open this particular can of worms. If there was even one weight so marked, it has escaped my notice.Bill 

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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John Alexander posted this 19 April 2015

Bill, How about trying this.  There are inexpensive center punches that are spring loaded and presumably give a more or less uniform blow with the center punch.  If there is enough difference between the indentations in lead and zinc wheelwrights that might be fairly fast.

I just thought of this and rushed down into the shop to give it a try.  But alas my gadget has apparently crawled in under something and I couldn't find it.  Hard to imagine how this could have happened in my meticulously organizes shop but ---

Another fairly cheap solution might be to rig up a Lee hardness tester in a way that you could quickly get indentations formed by a consistent force.

As long as my brain has ideas bouncing around inside and before I forget it, I wonder if those center punch gadgets hit a consistent enough blow to use as a hardness tester between lead alloys. So many thinks to try, so little time. John

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358156hp posted this 19 April 2015

On every wheelweight? I'm fighting my way through 300 lbs at the moment. Seriously, sidecutters work fine. You'll pick up the difference in the first few minutes.

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John Alexander posted this 19 April 2015

358156hp wrote: On every wheelweight? I'm fighting my way through 300 lbs at the moment. Seriously, sidecutters work fine. You'll pick up the difference in the first few minutes. You have to pick each one up with either method.   I have tried the side cutters and (probably because my tremendous strength) found that I wasn't certain which one  I had sometimes.  Can't report on speed of using the spring loaded center punch because i still can't find mine. Will try the side cutters again. John

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358156hp posted this 19 April 2015

Zinc barely dents with sidecutters, unless you're a mighty bear of a man with sharp dykes:D. Lead is medium soft, and usually shows significant denting. Most of my steel weights so far have been marked. I was lucky to chip the paint slightly, and felt silly when I realized that most of mine so far are marked “Fe".

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Wineman posted this 20 April 2015

You could also try Sulfuric Acid. It should dissolve Zinc but not lead. Tin will dissolve but slowly. The gas produced is extremely flammable Hydrogen so no open flames. Sulfuric acid is also pretty nasty stuff too so, rubber gloves and eye protection. Probably not a practical test though.

Dave

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Brodie posted this 20 April 2015

Well, you could try hydrochloric acid sold at pool supply stores as Muriatic acid.  It isn't near as hard on flesh as sulphuric , but I would still wear gloves, respirator and eye protection.  You could dilute it REMEMBER POUR THE ACID IN THE WATER NEVER THE OTHER WAY AROUND.  HCL will dissolve zinc just like H2S04 will and give off hydrogen gas and chlorine gas. Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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billglaze posted this 24 April 2015

Great ideas, all you folks. Once again, this list didn't disappoint!

John, I had thought of the center-punch, and, for some reason haven't been able to lay hands on mine; and I'm sure my shop space is nearly as organized as yours.
I'm wondering if my center punch has wandered off to be with yours, in some secluded rendevous. Both of us had better be on the lookout for a whole bunch of little centerpunches wandering around the shop! (Please excuse the momentary silliness; lost my head for a moment.

Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 25 April 2015

oh oh ... billg has gone ... punch-drunk ...

ken

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