Heard anything Re powder coating cast bullets instead of lubing and/or gas checking? Several people on other forums are giving them rave reviews.
Powder Coating cast instead of lubing and/or GCs
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- Last Post 15 September 2015
I'd caution not to try coatings just for the sake of trying the coatings. The coatings do not cancel the importance of bullet fit at all. Sure, they can work well but if your bullets don't fit, your alloy is wrong and your bore stinks, you will not see any change in the negative effects getting better from a bullet coating. Bullet fit still remains the most important factor to reduce or eliminate leading and fit remains most important to accuracy. Lube or a coating instead of lube remain the least important factor after bullet fit, alloy selection to load level and bore condition. When the fit and alloy are correct and barrel condition is good, a simple tumble with 45:45:10 or Lee Liquid Alox that only takes seconds to treat hundreds of bullets works just fine.
Gary
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Another member and I did some tests last summer. Should be an article coming out in the Fouling Shot with results.
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I hope you quote me!!!!!!
Happy New Year!
Gary
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Gary brings up what I believe to be the biggest advantage to Powder Coat, BULLET FIT, it's a great way to add dimension to a bullet in the area you need it without honing a mould, bumping or beagling. I now PC 95% of my handgun bullets and about 60% of my rifle bullets As with choices with bullet design some guns prefer one over the other. GP
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I hope to see more discussion on power coating on the forum and will look forward to Ric's article in the Fouling Shot.
I think PC may offer some interesting possibilities for some kinds of CB shooting. It may or not lead to record breaking accuracy or 4,00 fps CB loads but whether it does or not it seems to me that we shouldn't reject it out of hand without looking into it. We don't know everything about cast bullet shooting or we would be improving the level of CB shooting as we learn -- which as Joe B. points out we haven't been.
The Great Gretzky said -- “If you don't shoot you won't score."
John
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Thanks all for the reply. If I were a newbie I'd need the lesson on bullet fit, et al. My reason for the post is that a different forum has a lot of casters claiming PC is a substitute for lube and checks and allows for high velocity w/o leading. Since I had seen nothing in FS about PC, and since most, if not all on said other forum really are newbies, I was inquiring. Eagerly awaiting test results because if it really does work there are whole new possibilities for cast bullets at jacketed velocity. (with a nod to Veral Smith) JLG
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Just to give members the opportunity to visit another site and review what others are doing, I am including a link to the “alternative coatings” topic section of another forum. Wether you choose to visit and view is up to the individual. But, there is no sense in not keeping informed about what others are trying. Some will have their own views, but at least none will be required to re-invent the wheel. Take what you can use, leave the rest, but at least be informed.
There will always be those that prefer ladle to bottom pour, powder coat to conventional lube, tumble lube to beeswax based lube, and air cooled alloys and quenched alloys. They all shoot, so whatever works best for the individual is what is best at the time.
At some point those powders may no longer be available and that will push us back to tallow and beeswax. At least we can share the knowledge.
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I've had a limited, but positive experience with PC'd CB's in one of my revolvers (S&W Model 10, 4” bbl.) several months ago. In short, I requested a sample of a certain Lee Precision CB, which I received, but also got 20 or so PC'd ones of a different design + 20 uncoated, but of the same type. I should add that these were plain base CB's. The PC v. uncoated, but normally lubed ones were equally accurate @ 25 yd., but impacted the target in a different place. There was no leading with either, but the PC'd ones smelled something like burnt epoxy or burning electrical insulation upon firing. I was both surprised and pleased with them and think this new procedure is well worth exploring.
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It is my personal experience that you should not expect powder coat to replace the need of a gas check. I've found that you can push a PC'd bullet faster than conventionally lubed ones using softer alloy and this may be helpful in hunting applications. But my recommendation is that if it a gas check design, use one. GP
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PCting to me is interesting if faddish for the colors it allows. I'm a bolt rifle shooter interested in accuracy rather than hosing rounds downrange, so it has no attraction to me. However, I fully support such use for casters who appreciate it's possibilities. The more casters we have of any persuasion the better.
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To me the main advantage is the potential for care-free long-term storage. There is no lube to fall or be knocked out of the grooves or to melt into the powder of loaded rounds.
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Ive dipped my big toe in powder coating once, took the Pepsi challenge, and what I think is that for shooters who use suppressors, powder coat bullets are a godsend. I have not noticed any gain in accuracy or speed with these things. If you do everything just right, they can sortof hang in there with standard cast bullets on a good day.
However, in pistol and low speed situations, they seem to give up little to the standard plain based bullet in the accuracy dept. , and they have some very attractive advantages. Mainly, they are totally insensitive to being made by the thousands and stacked in coffee cans in the garage to sit through two seasons of temperature swings before getting loaded and used. If they are loaded in ammunition right off, there is no chance of the lube leaching oils into the powder column in the blistering heat of summer. The PC boolits are sealed, so if the bullets get wet on a hunting trip, they wont get all tarnished and nasty looking. All things considered, PC bullets create a tough, attractive, usable bullet that anybody can do in their garage, and especially in pistols they work very very well. One place I have witnessed them being used to great effect is in a 300BLK AR. A friend of mine across town is a PC fiend, and loves his suppressed 300BLK SBR. I personally watched him engaging targets out to 500 meters with that little gun. True the targets were a 1' X 2' steel plate, and he was out of adjustment on his scope and using Kentucky windage to drop them in at that range, but it was very impressive considering the supposed limitations of the platform he was using.
As to the HV rifle shooting, LMG can weigh in on this better than I can, but I thought he had said that in order to shoot above 2000FPS may be fuzzy on that detail) the best thing you can do to make a powder coat bullet shoot like a champ is to put lube in the grooves and use a GC on the back.
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Happy New Year Friends: Now that this subject is gleaning at least some modest interest there are a few personal observations I would like to pass on to fellow members, your results may vary. Those of you bored with my standing at this pulpit please move on as this may seem long winded. Pentz: Thank you sir for your inclusive attitude as there are differing goals here at the CBA relating to our hobby. I'm in the minority as I have zero interest in competitive bench shooting. The difference to me between 1 MOA and 1/2 MOA is totally inconsequential. To paraphrase crusty ole Col. Cooper “If you can stand at the 100 mark, shooting off hand and hit a paper plate 10 out of ten you are quite marksman enough” Enter powder coat, while I do believe that a properly fitted bullet lubed in the area just ahead of the gas check is most likely to out preform a powder coated twin, I also know that the most likely weak link in the chain is ME not PC vs. lube. Though I rarely “Hose bullets down range” there are most definite advantages to using PC in autoloaders, especially those gas impinged or as Tim points out suppressed. My little M1 Carbine eats them like Jelly Beans(pun intended) and is a very fun beer can roller. As to the faddish part, color can be fun and even helpful if your color coding loads for any reason. I, along with others often use a clear coating that if you were shooting next to me you would most likely think to be fresh cast linotype or an OCD tidy freak that cleaned enery smudge off his bullets. My daughters, grand-daughters and favorite Bar Maids all however have colorful powder coated bullet key chain fobs to match the caliber they carry or their lipstick as the case may be. The storage as mentioned is a big plus also clean dies and bullet feeders on progressives are a big help. This powder coating thing has a lot to offer as a lube alternative and sizing tool. It's easy to do and fits my recreational shooting style very well. Give it a try before conventional wisdom calls B.S. All comments pro and con welcome. GP
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GP, For your interests, powder coating is here to stay. It does everything you say it does, and does it well. My interests were, where else can it go? I think hunting bullets and pistol shooters that shoot in the speed games. The search for new uses is part of the fun of new techniques of cast bullets. Ric, the benchrest shooter. The difference between 1/2 MOA and 1 MOA is the difference between a South Dakota wheat field and the South China Sea.
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I may be able to ponder that last post for the rest of my life. There may not even be an “existential” difference between a South Dakota wheat field and the South China Sea...:shock:
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Well, the last time I looked at a wheat field, I didn't spy any junks cruising around. But sometimes I fear that some may be pointed in this direction existential or not.
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Unless it is raining wheat fields are dry, and a lot smaller. They also aren't near China. Brodie
B.E.Brickey
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Water, water, everywhere and not a drop to drink... Home is in the heart.
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Vassal: Have you had occasion to send a few down range? Happy New Year GP
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I apologize GP. I had to leave the country and haven't had much range time. When I get back home I'll try to get some results posted.
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