Military ball accuracy

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  • Last Post 14 January 2015
bandmiller2 posted this 20 December 2014

Have any of you had the chance to compare the accuracy of military ball 30-06 to the normal offerings from Rem. or Win. I have some good clean Remington 1955 gov. ball.?? Won't have a chance to get to the range for a wile. Thanks Frank C.

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Chargar posted this 20 December 2014

Some lots of M2 ball compare favorably with commercial ammo and some don't. Of course some commercial ammo isn't anything to write home about either.

Only way to know for certain is to shoot em!

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RicinYakima posted this 20 December 2014

I agree with Charger. 80% of ball accuracy is the bullet, so how good they are is the main factor. I have shot some WWII Denver ball that would do 2 MOA and some 1953 Win that would not do 6 MOA. And it varies from lot to lot, so testing is the only answer. FWIW, Ric

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Ed Harris posted this 20 December 2014

Cal. .30 Ball M2 produced for “rifle pack” either clipped or boxed, had to shoot no worse than 5 inches Mean Radius at 600 yards from the government test bsrrel. The extreme spread runs about 3 times the MR, so the lot acceptance test MR is a close approximation of what you might expect for 10-shot groups fired at 200 yards from a good boltgun.

"Linked pack” for machinegun use was allowed to to 7.5” Mean Radius in acceptance, and some repacked, boxed ammo sold by the CMP was delinked, so can be expected to not do better than about 3 moa.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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joeb33050 posted this 20 December 2014

10 shot group size averages 3.46, call it 3.5 times Mean Radius. If the specification is “no worse than 5” Mean Radius"; then the goco ammo plant had to produce ammunition that averaged well less than that, maybe the average was ~3". Now that's at 600 yards and average 10 shot group size would then be 3” X 3.5 = 10.5” or 3.5” 10 shot groups at 200 yards if the relationship is linear and it ain't. Now 3.5” is still a little high, but a lot closer to my experience shooting 30-06 ball out of good bolt guns.  I/we shot a lot of this surplus 30-06 ball, but commercial ammunition was too expensive compared to the surplus, so I have no knowledge of that, Senator. Merry Christmas!

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Larry Gibson posted this 20 December 2014

I've been accuracy, chronographing and pressure testing numerous lots of M2 ball for a few years now. So far I've tested 16 different lots in two rifles; a M1903A1 match rifle I've built with a new RA 4 groove barrel and my pressure test rifle both with 24” barrels and both moa capable. Head stamp dates have run from '42 to '69. Most were loaded with extruded powder but several were loaded with ball powder.

Only one lot actually proved to meet original pre WWII M2 specifications of 2700 fps and that was the DEN 42 lot. Two other lots (RA 58 & TW 5) had velocities in the 2600 fps range (2651 & 2622 fps). Accuracy for 10 shot groups with all 3 of those lots was 1.8 - 3” at 100 yards.

All of the other lots were of the sub-standard M2 Ball specification produced en masse for the NG and used primarily in WWII and the Korean War. The velocity for those NG spec lots of M2 ranged from 2484 to 2530 fps. Accuracy for all of those with 5 and 10 shot groups range from 2.5 to an abysmal 5.7” at 100 yards. It is apparent with the reduced velocity of the sub standard NG M2 Ball the accuracy requirement was also “relaxed".

It is interesting to note that while the NG sub standard M2 was intended for training on NG ranges The use of the substandard M2 Ball became “standard” and it was used in theater during the wars mentioned. The velocity was reduced to keep the bullets within the safety fan of many NG ranges. Tested M2 AP Ball is loaded to specification and all loads I've tested produced 2610 - 2635 fps. It's no wonder the snipers came to prefer the AP Ball for “superior ballistics at farther ranges". The AP Ball was indeed “superior".

I have not encountered any of the post WWII specification M2 Ball ammunition to test which was supposed to have 2800+ fps. However when quality M2 bullets are loaded to the original 2700 fps and the later specified 2800+ fps the round is indeed a very good one. As mentioned by another the quality of the bullet is imperative to good accuracy. The quality of M2 Ball bullets does indeed vary greatly as mentioned. Many will not produce better than 3 - 5+ moa even when reloaded with quality components and shot in match rifles with the same 10” twist.

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 20 December 2014

heh i have some 1965 mil ( 7.62 308 ) that in my tikka sporter i have trouble hitting a bean can at 50 yards ... from a bench rest .

makes rcbs cast look pretty good.

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Wineman posted this 20 December 2014

The Greek HXP M2 can easily hit 2,800 fps. I have chrono graphed 63-2789, 69-2800, 76-2850 (61 grains of Ball Powder! you can't hear it shake), 82-2775. These were all averages of 10 shots out of an M1 Garand. The ES's were ~140 and SD's ~36. I Have found the weights to vary +/- five grains per full case. Sorting these into similar groups helps the accuracy. When sorted you can hold the 10 ring (7") of the SR target at 200 yards with an M1, in prone with a sling.

Dave

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Brodie posted this 21 December 2014

I had one box of circa 1950's M2 ball that split along the case body.  The other boxes I had shot alright.  I went ahead and fired that whole box of ammo (I was about 15) in practice (I did have good shooting glasses), and almost all of them split.  We went antelope hunting in Wyoming the first day every round I fired had to be either pried out of the rifle or driven outwith a rod.  That night Dad went into town got a hardwood dowel and some crocus cloth .  He split the dowel and polished the chamber of the rifle.  I have had no further failures to extract or eject from that rifle to this day (I'm 68).

B.E.Brickey

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30shtur posted this 21 December 2014

The gun shop in Red Lodge, MT has a target with a hole about 2 inches diameter. On the target, written in ink it states; 10 shot group at 600 yds, Ball ammo, M1D sniper rifle. The shooter told me; he spent 26 years looking at people through a riflescope. So it's true, eh?

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bandmiller2 posted this 14 January 2015

I must have a good lot of 1955 Rem. M2 ball, three shot 100 yd. group 1 3/8". H&R ultra rifle light barrel 18 degrees, frozen fingers, can probably do better. Frank C.

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